AIBU in thinking JC should resign?

[QuiteLikely5]

He's made a mockery of the Labour Party and won votes by creating a manifesto that the country could not afford to deliver!!!

Resign JC !!!

Actually I am lying. I did it for myself. I believe that the increase in homeless the decrease in mental health services, in the NHS, in teaching is a DIRECT threat to my own life.

The devaluation of human life in thos country under the Tories affects my own safety and wellbeing both physical and mentally

There was a general view in the City before the election that they didn't necessarily want an increased majority because they are not at all happy about the prospect of a hard Brexit.

two we certainly wouldn't be crippled here.

We earn a lot and have invested very prudently over the years. However, can anyone be that sure that we will simply pay the higher tax?

What if did decide to move or take early retirement or have a sabbatical or change our tax affairs.

How can people be so sure that no one will do this? Especially as some of the people in that top 5% are not British anyway and quite a few will lean to the right politically.

Weird. Suddenly the Sun's name has disappeared. Even they don't want to be associated with it.

Apologies. It says the petition will be delivered to the Sun.

If the tweet had been real he woukd have been arrested

And hopefully kicked out of university for being stupid enough to admit to a crime

Which is why i thought it might possibly...out side chance, not be real

I voted Tory for the many, not the few. You don't look after the less fortunate by spend spend spend. You do so by careful husbandry of money. That is why the British did not vote Labour in as they agree with me.

Yes, it is all a bit of a complex mess at present but many of us are not against the result actually. I was saying to my Corbynite son yesterday that in a sense both of us are winner - we are both Remainers as is most of the City (and most people of sense) so the kind of Brexit we may push for may in fact end up being closer to what we wanted.

The two positions are EU : www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29-euco-brexit-guidelines/

UK: Articel 50 letter www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/article-50-brexit-letter-read-full/ and the UK Brexit White paper ukdated May 2017 www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union-white-paper/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union--2

Everyone considering Brexit should read those documents.

We can go into talks with our "asks" but we need agreement of the EU27 so it is not going to be easy.

Uk

ceto the issue of Brexit is interesting.

Before the referendum, I'd say that there was a definite remain flavour on the city's tongue ( though of course there were also some leave voices).

Post referendum, there seemed to be a more pragmatic 'let's just get this done' vibe. Which I guess is what you'd expect?

And that's the problem with the labour manifesto. It was "costed" in that it said how much everything would cost. What it didn't do at all was take into account what would happen if people changed their patterns or emigrated - and they left in droves in previous brain drains, "1 for you, 19 for me" as the Beatles' Taxman sang, or "the taxman's taken all my dough" as the kinks sang at the time. No economist has been able to improve that a tax hike increases income. But JC's entire sweetie factory was based on it.

Dawn - you can believe that if it helps you sleep at night. But it's not true. Some are going anyway, because of Brexit. Others will go if taxes go up. Then it will be down to people like moomin to bridge the gap. And when they start squeaking, the tier below them.

Of course, it would be brilliant if this were wrong and JC managed to turn us into a high tax paying country with amazing public services. But it never worked before; why would it work now with a much bigger population not paying much in the way of tax (mostly elderly and students) and lots of existing debt and lots of issues e.g. the private contracts that would need to be terminated before the state dream could ever be realised? That's the worry. Because once you've chased away high earners and investors, they don't come back easily. Esp to a country in recession.

And that's going to be terrible for people with disabilities and other reasons for needing support.

Brexit is indeed interesting in the city. I know lots of people who are devastated. Lots who are still in denial. And I also know lots of high earning people in finance who voted out - their firm view is that the EU is corrupt and knackered; that it has enriched Germany at the expense of misery for hundreds of thousands across Greece, southern Italy, Spain etc; and that one day we will be glad we got out when we did.

I don't agree with them; I was very much a remainer, but it's interesting to hear people argue passionately for it. (Also interestingly, I know several bankers who couldn't vote because they aren't British, all of whom would have voted out because they think there's too much immigration here! )

Exactly Dan. I think it's all pretty academic now. We probably have the Tories for the next few years so Brexit is the next job in hand. The EU 27 have set out their position (above) and so has our side so we will have to see how the talks go.

This is also an interesting read, for those who preach that high taxes work in other countries.

www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571136-politicians-both-right-and-left-could-learn-nordic-countries-next-supermodel

The tax hikes in the Labour manifesto are only their initial plans. Rebecca Long-Bailey has said this in 2 interviews I have heard. There will be further increases.

Also Labour’s funding document, which it published alongside the party’s manifesto, says that the party backed “scrapping the married persons’ tax allowance”.

This is worth up to £230 a year for families – and is available only to people earning less than the higher rate of income tax.

It isn't just the 5% then.

Yeah, I suspect we'll get another year or so of TM with a diluted manifesto that has ditched grammar schools and elderly care.

Then the government will limp along with DUP support until such time as they don't...

But in the meantime, Labour need to look properly at their manifesto income streams.The Tories really did not tackle it this time, but they will next!

If there's to be any chance of making lives better in reality, as opposed to talking about it, there needs to be some hard Tory-like assessment.

Yeah and the Tories said they wouldn't rule out tax rises do who knows what they have planned.

I voted Tory for the many, not the few. You don't look after the less fortunate by spend spend spend. You do so by careful husbandry of money

Yes any government aims to do this. Now the last time I checked, it isn't an economic choice between austerity or spending loads. There are ways of borrowing to invest, grow the economy etc = more for all.

If you cut, the economy finds it difficult to recover because both the public and private sector play a key role. This is why the Tories have never been able to get a handle on economic growth after 7 years of epic cutting. How long do you give it?

Theresa May has apparently said austerity is over.....

Mary you still haven't explained how you would be "crippled". Seen I Daniel Blake? Will you be in that place? I think not.

As for people will leave - in all honesty a lot of that top 5% probably pay very little tax as they pay whopping amounts to tax avoidance lawyers. The richest man I know pays hardly any tax, "lives" on sark. Literally a fat cat billionaire. Sickens me.

Also all of the money from the manifesto wasn't coming from income tax. Some was from corporation tax (we have a really low rate in the U.K.), some from cracking down on tax avoidance and evasion. Some was from higher VAT on school fees.

Private schools get £500million in tax breaks because they are "charities". Well that needs to stop, what a fucking joke. . £500million went to ATOS and capita for administrating PIP (badly). If you look at the manifesto it wasn't all to be costed by the rise in income tax for the higher earners.

We earn around £60k a year, own our house with no mortgage. We could afford to be taxed at a higher rate and I would be happy to pay it.

Of course fab but their preferred modus operandi would be to keep spending low and make loan repayments from current rates of tax.

They hope that tax take will rise organically with the economy. But if they're wrong, they'll look to tax rises and more cuts.

The difference for Labour is that the borrowing needed is higher, so the amount needed for repayment is greater. It's so precarious.

Fab39ish - Yes, I agree they have said that but the difference is the Tories believe in lowering taxes if they can. Giving people more of their own money to spend how they want to. If taxes go up under the Tories it will be much more measured.

However, they Tories have pledged to raise the personal allowance to £12,500.

I am sure this has already been said but the top 5% already pay a huge amount of tax. To think that they will all keep paying it is naive. Not all, but a lot will change their working patterns, move countries - it has happened in the past and it will again.

I totally agree something has to change. Cutting education, police budgets etc is not working but I'm not sure piling more tax on the top 5% is going to work either. Borrowing loads of money on the markets isn't going to help interest rates. It is a mess.

Theresa May should resign, shes fucked the country up royally, we have zilcho chance of getting a decent deal for Brexit, the nation is making us a laughing stock with all this shit, the pounds dropped she called an election 9 days before brexit negotations, how stupid was that??? and she lost seats, so yes she should resign, people are fed up with her targetting the poor and disabled.

OK so the poor little rich will all rum away. Don't make me laugh. If they aren't UK citizens they will leave at some point any way. If they are after Brexit pray tell where can they go?

there needs to be some hard Tory-like assessment.

This homespun ground you far-rightest are trying to pitch your tent on....it doesn't work when Tory debt keeps exploding.

And it doesn't work when Tory austerity chokes the life out of economic growth - and thus tax revenues.

Your manifesto was idiotic and economically illiterate.

If you guys are tired of me banging my drum, I am tired of the constantly repeated Tory lie that they are competent.

You aren't. Your ignorant Tory shit is driving the country into a dark hole.

Mary Does your many include the homeless...the poor...the sick and the disabled? Look around the Tories have destroyed them

However, they Tories have pledged to raise the personal allowance to £12,500

^the lib dems were the one who introduced the policy to increase the personal allowance in the 2010 coalition. I do believe this recent policy was in the lib dem manifesto a few years ago. It wasn't a natural Tory policy.

In fact, I may be wrong but I've never heard Theresa May say she wants low tax rates.

Also I have asked this question before.

Can someone provide me an example of where trickle down economic policy works? The Tories have been in power for 7 years and before that 13 years.....

Under new labour, oru country was doing very well until the banking crisis. Or have you forgotten.