To think I am going to get totally shafted here

[HarrietKettleWasHere]

I'm a nanny. As my one charge is of an age where she doesn't 'need' me as much, I've picked up various PA duties for my employer so it's remained a full time position. I stay over when she's away (single parent) I care for two slightly highly strung dogs, I keep the diary, organise shopping etc etc.

Now my charge is off to boarding school in September. Yes, I 'knew' it was coming (I took her to the interviews and exams for one thing and was there when she got her acceptance letter) BUT my employer made no mention of when my job would come to a natural end. I didn't want to 'show my hand' as it were and have waited for her to approach me with end dates/redundancy talk etc.

This morning, in an email (a 'no subject' one at that!) she has said she 'proposes' I work up until the 21st July. After that she'll pay holiday outstanding.

No mention of redundancy paid which I'm sure I must be owed since it's not me choosing to leave the job. Statutory at least? It's been over three years.

I'm shaking now, partly because I don't know what I'm going to do (find another job obviously but don't have lots of time, less than I thought I would)

Partly because after three years she hasn't sat me down face to face to talk this through (she's using the excuse she doesn't want her daughter to overhear )

Because I need the payment as a cusion if I do t find work straight away- I rent a flat with my partner and rent payment is high enough to warrent we are both in constant full time employment or we'd be screwed.

Also because I'm shit with things like this, I go quietly rather than make a fuss (self esteem issues) but I think I'm going to get massively screwed over if I do not speak up.

Please wise mumsnetters, advice on what to do would be really, really appreciated. I feel a sick abs have no idea what my next move should be.

From your updates I sense that you are the kind of nanny who waits for her boss to let her know about the family holidays before asking for days out just to make sure she only uses her allowance when the family doesn't intend to take time off...
After 3 years with them I am surprised you are speaking in terms of "showing your hand" and strategizing as to how get the post money out of them.
Our nanny has been with us for only one year and luckily she doesn't have the same attitude - which onviously leads to me also being flexible when she needs it

Way off the mark, Urubu. Way off.

You are definitely entitled to statutory redundancy.
We have just given our nanny notice. After 2.5 years. Contractually we owed her 4 weeks notice and legally 2 weeks redundancy. We've actually given her 8 weeks notice and a full months pay redundancy. She said been amazing.

Thanks Fruitbat. You sound like a lovely and very fair employer.

Of course you're owed redundancy pay??

If your employed though has done everything else by the book, what makes you think that you won't get your redundancy money? If you're worried juts phrase your response in a way that makes it clear that you are being made redundant.

Something like: thanks for the email confirming that I'm to be made redundant on the 21st July. Its been a lovely 3 years working for you, I'm really going to miss little XXXX and hope that's she's really happy at her new school and that you'll keep in touch and let me know how she is getting on (gush, gush, gush....)

!

When I asked her to confirm (i.e. Use the word 'redundant' so I could be sure she just said 'we'll talk later' so hopefully I can try and sort this face to face.

Whatever you talk about make sure that you follow it up with an email confirming what was discussed so she cant try and wriggle out of it if you do need to go to tribunal.

Op your employer should consult (which should be straight forward) then she needs to serve you notice which you either work or then get paid out if you can not work it - if no contract you should have contractual notice i.e. A week per year and you can check the government calculator for redundancy pay - notice pay is taxed and redundancy pay is tax free - all this assuming you are a normal employee i.e. Not self employed or working via a company.

Also ask for a reference too - I can't see you not being able to get a reference
Good luck

Yes, you should be entitled to redundancy. You can calculate the amount here www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay

Reallyanotherone, the wording on that site is a bit misleading. The entitlement only kicks in once you have two years' service but the amount should be calculated based on the full length of employment, so it's nearer to £1500.

I do think it would be decent of her to pay you until the start of the child's first day at the new school as that is when you were thinking your position would end. Also, as you have been helping with other duties it is not out of the question that you were under the impression that there would be a new position ie PA, dog walker, look after kids in holidays type position. Boarding schools have long holidays (4 months a year) so I don't know what she is planning for the holidays.

Redundancy? Never heard of this for nannying?

Redundancy? Never heard of this for nannying?

Why not? It's a job

Really? Did you not know nannying was a job with the same employment rights as any other?

How embarrassing for you!

Moving on up has said it perfectly.

Bit shocked at how many people view a nanny differently to someone who works outside the home. Of course it's redundancy. Of course OP has rights.

I think what I'm finishing confusing is that is employer entitled to give notice in lieu of redundancy pay? Not as well as? She's given me around six weeks more paid employment. Plus quite a lot of holidays I am owed as due to her work and personal commitments I've had just two days off outside of bank holidays since December.

Notalotterywinner - unless you're on a fixed term contract with a clearly defined start and finish date, then of course you are entitled to redundancy, why wouldn't you be??? I got £6k when I got made redundant from my previous nannying job, (11 years service, lovely family).

Sorry, finding confusing not finishing. Ugh it's a mess. Apart from any financial concerns I'm feeling pretty unappreciated to just be told so casually that I'll just stop working on a certain date.

No, notice and redundancy are two different things.

From what you have said you will be entitled to work your notice (or be paid in lieu of notice if going immediately and you both agreed - this does not sound at all likely from what you have said) and entitled to redundancy pay.

So if you boss has your consultation today and gives you a leaving date of 21st July and you are entitled to 3 weeks notice she is giving you more than your entitlement by giving you 6 and a bit weeks notice. Then in your final pay you would get your earnings up until 21st July plus any owed holiday pay, plus your redundancy pay.

You're entitled to paid notice (which can be pay in lieu of notice) plus a redundancy payment.

Statutory notice for employees' with more than 2 year's service is one week per year of service, so you're legally entitled to a minimum of 3 week's notice - unless you have a contract (I know you've said you don't have one) which stipulates a contractual entitlement to more notice.

She cannot say more notice = no redundancy pay. Redundancy pay up to £30K is paid tax free. The pay you receive during your notice period will be taxed as normal. But she may say, okay I'll give you redundancy pay but reduce your notice period to the minimum I have to give under the law.

well, no contract also means no contract for you to be held to.

So you can look for jobs and be available pretty much immediately. If your charge ends up for a few weeks without nanny, that is not your problem.

Cuts both ways.

You could quit any time.

Good luck job hunting, don't wait!

Except that if she resigns giving her 3 weeks notice and she's not entitled to any redundancy money Ruby.

Sexanddrugs - I think even the expiry of a 2-year fixed term contract is a redundancy for these purposes. Just bear in mind that redundancy payment are likely not taxable, whereas notice payments could well be....

I don't know but surely being a nanny is more like a fixed term contract? Therefore not a redundancy situation?
Someone who eg covers maternity leave doesn't get redundancy because in their contract it will say when the work finishes...I suspect being a nanny is the same - you know it is a role that will only be for a certain number of years.
You didn't have a contract - so it clouds the issue but for others in the situation (a nanny or someone employing a nanny) maybe you need a renewal 1yr contract etc or a clause in it - but after a certain number of years (3 or 5 -you would need to check) the fact it was a fixed term contract becomes irrelevant...
I would talk to ACAS ...

Ffs.

How can you say nannying is a fixed term contract though?! what are the terms? What if your employer has another child? Or they go to a local school and not away? It's not the same as a maternity cover in any way.