To think I am going to get totally shafted here

[HarrietKettleWasHere]

I'm a nanny. As my one charge is of an age where she doesn't 'need' me as much, I've picked up various PA duties for my employer so it's remained a full time position. I stay over when she's away (single parent) I care for two slightly highly strung dogs, I keep the diary, organise shopping etc etc.

Now my charge is off to boarding school in September. Yes, I 'knew' it was coming (I took her to the interviews and exams for one thing and was there when she got her acceptance letter) BUT my employer made no mention of when my job would come to a natural end. I didn't want to 'show my hand' as it were and have waited for her to approach me with end dates/redundancy talk etc.

This morning, in an email (a 'no subject' one at that!) she has said she 'proposes' I work up until the 21st July. After that she'll pay holiday outstanding.

No mention of redundancy paid which I'm sure I must be owed since it's not me choosing to leave the job. Statutory at least? It's been over three years.

I'm shaking now, partly because I don't know what I'm going to do (find another job obviously but don't have lots of time, less than I thought I would)

Partly because after three years she hasn't sat me down face to face to talk this through (she's using the excuse she doesn't want her daughter to overhear )

Because I need the payment as a cusion if I do t find work straight away- I rent a flat with my partner and rent payment is high enough to warrent we are both in constant full time employment or we'd be screwed.

Also because I'm shit with things like this, I go quietly rather than make a fuss (self esteem issues) but I think I'm going to get massively screwed over if I do not speak up.

Please wise mumsnetters, advice on what to do would be really, really appreciated. I feel a sick abs have no idea what my next move should be.

Point 4 in my link outlines your notice period if no contract.

I don't know why people are saying this isn't a redundancy situation It's a classic redundancy situation: employee with more than 2 years service and the job is ceasing to exist.

Obviously after three years in the same job I need her to write me a lovely reference so I do not want to leave on any poor terms. My boss does have form for not being totally appreciative of the fact that I have a life too but that's a whole other thread. I just want her to be fair and also I don't want to feel like I've been cast aside without much thought after three years.

Just because you're a nanny it doesn't mean that you're not protected like every other employee is, especially as you have been employed for over two years. It sounds to me like the mum is trying to pull a fast one and you need to put your foot down.

I do feel like nannies are not considered 'proper' employees like if I worked in an office or something. I still go to work every day and do a job for an employer.

Surely with 4 weeks notice it's not a redundancy situation anyway. I definitely wouldn't expect redundancy pay in these circumstances?

Look, if you don't know what you're posting about why post at all?

And a lack of contract doesn't mean the OP is not protected by statutory employment rights.

How strange that people assume redundancy doesn't apply to nannies.

Barbarian No, but it makes life a damn sight easier and undertaking a job without a contract is foolish.

I don't understand why you didn't talk to your employer about a leaving date. You knew the daughter was going to boarding school so you knew your job would end soon. If you were looking for a new job you'd have to tell a new employer when you'd start - how could you not ask your current employer about this?

What you're entitled to, and what you want to leave with are two different things. You may have to choose between leaving with an extra few weeks pay, but with a standard reference letter, or not making a fuss and leaving with a glowing reference. I'd get the glowing reference in writing as soon as you can, then decide.

Either way, you'll be job hunting.

It sounds as though the OP has taken on many more duties than just being the nanny. If it were me, and I'd been part of this family for 3 years, I would be wondering if I would be kept on in some capacity... I wouldn't write to the mother saying "when do I finish?" because it's an indication that I want the job to end.

Also, the OP was reasonable to expect the job to go until September, given the school year, her length of service and her additional duties.

Really Jax, you think the OP should give up what she is entitled to both morally and legally in order to get a decent reference? What are we, in Victorian times or something.

OP, get the money and the reference and be prepared to play hardball otherwise.

Ok there are reasons I didn't ask her about a leaving date first. It was probably misguided on my part. But I felt that if I got offered a job then I'd be handing in my notice my boss which would mean she wouldn't have to pay me anything and I thought if I was to be made redundant anyway it made more sense to hang on for that THEN start another job. The money I would get although not a significant about t would cover any cross over period between end and start dates.

Secondly, the nanny previous to me was offered full time employment in my boss's company as a PA, when she told my boss she didn't want to nanny anymore. I naively thought (and had been hoping definitely) that this might be an option for me.

Exactly DeadGood. I didn't want to show indication that it was my choice not to be employed by her any longer.

If you boss has her own company then she should be fully aware of redundancy legislation and rules - it sounds as though she's relying on your good nature and trying to pull a fast one.

Good luck OP

Ask her for a written reference now, because you are job hunting. When you have it, present her with your calculation as to what you are owed in terms of outstanding holiday pay and statutory redundancy. Make it clear you are prepared to go to tribunal to get what you are owed.

I made my employee redundant on Friday because I am closing down my business. I have given her over and above the statutory notice period, redundancy pay and (because I can afford it) a goodwill bonus. Just basic decency really.

I might be scarily naive, but could you ask about available positions in the company?

An indication wouldn't mean anything, only a resignation.

It's a shame you didn't take advice before - a sit down conversation with your boss could have made a big difference. Of course your boss should have done this too but you knew they way things were heading and relied on hopes and assumptions.

There's still time to get make the best of the situation but you do need to sit down together and talk it through.

Remember to keep a note of your conversation and ideally send a summary of your conversation to your boss by email afterwards to confirm your discussion and any agreed actions.

I would value a good reference over a few hundred pound. Perhaps she simply doesn't realise this is a redundancy situation

But I feel it's unfair that I'd have to choose between a good reference (which I fully deserve, I've been a good nanny, 2 sick days in three years, flexible (I regularly stay late and come in early at really short notice) I go above and beyond and do things to make my boss's life easier that are outside my expected duties.

But my charge had interviews for local schools too. If she'd remained close by then I'd still be required.

Of course you have a contract - she has been paid for services for 3 yrs there is an implied contract the terms of which are either established through practice ie holidays, sick etc or by law (as minimal standards) which can be checked out on line. Fundamentally employer is breaking law by not having at least issued a letter with terms included, which can be taken in lieu of contract. The job IS redundant ie ceasing to exist - whether or not it was expected is irrelevant. However redundancy is not that onerous ie the one weeks pay for each yr over 2 yrs service ie one weeks pay. There are plenty of reliable websites and ACAS is also a good place to phone and discuss. It doesn't need to get nasty she just needs a reasonably worded letter pointing out responsibilities etc and go from there. To someone who has paid a Nanny full time and is putting child in boarding school £500 is probably less than they spend on food shopping in a month

If you have form for not being particularly assertive, then just don't be drawn into agreeing anything definitive in your discussion with her later (but hold her to the discussion!). Get it straight in your head now how you would like things to proceed.

You can say

1. How great it's been to work for them, and how you hope she'll be able to give you a great reference now you'll be officially job-hunting.

2. The end date is a bit sooner than you had expected (i.e. I thought I was working the holidays until September)

3. Just wanted to clarify that this is a redundancy situation, as the job no longer exists and there isn't an alternative? (If she hums & haws about how you knew it was ending you can just not agree to anything at this point and say you're happy to clarify, and then send her the links to the website listed in this thread afterwards)

4. You may need some flexibility about interviews as the end of your contract is coming up much sooner than you'd anticipated so greater urgency to jobhunt.

and 5) How wonderful the DC is and how you know she'll be great in her new school (end on a sweet note!)

Honestly, it's stuff like this that is the reason we no longer employ a nanny. Why on earth didn't you look out for yourself and speak to her when You first started looking around boarding schools, particularly as you need your salary and have no means of paying your rent without it (normal for lots of us!).

You are of course entitled to redundancy pay. Don't pussy foot around it, work out what your contract says your entitled to and ask for it if it's not forthcoming. Don't forget your holiday pay.

It's understandable if she resents paying if to you because unlike a trading business she can't offset the cost at all and won't be getting the service from you either. But that's not your problem, ultimately you are entitled to it so stand firm. There are a lot of hidden costs to having a nanny and this is one of them. She may not realise it's owed.

Try and be amicable, you need a good reference. I wouldn't employ a nanny without an exemplary reference from their last employer. Maybe ask her if she can ask around within her network for alternative positions. Where I live it's all word of mouth and if she is positive about you I suspect you will be snapped up.

You have chosen a career that by its nature insecure, nanny's where I live often end up temping as nursery nurses for example in between roles and I think voids of employment are one of the risks of your chosen career. Hope it works out for you.