Can't just be me that thinks Corbyn nailed it.

[CivQueen]

I am so happy he mentioned the Saudi connection and the 'sensitive report'

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-speech-live-watch-10560047.amp

Hezbollah - a Shi'a Islamist militant group

'the Saudis' - an entire nation and ethnic group

Bit of a difference.

It seems more likely that we are heading to a similar set of awful circumstances under the Tories with their terrible Brexit

Absolutely!

They are approaching the biggest change since the War with NO PLAN AT ALL!

Nothing.

There is a difference between anti sematism and anti zionism. Corbyn has denounced racism and anti sematism in all its forms, he has said so over and over again.

Are you aware Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties with Qatar yesterday for harbouring and supporting extremist groups like Al Qaeda and Isis? Probably not. I doubt you know very much about the region at all.

Yemen?

Yes I am aware of this and think its hypocritical

But I have started to worry that if they do win, they will cop the blame for the shit storm that Brexit will inevitably cause.

I worry about this too, but the alternative - leaving the Tories to clear up their own shit or pay the consequences - also means another 5 years of trashing public services on a scale I doubt Britain could come back from.

I also think the Labour Party is being much shrewder than the Tories about the language they are using to discuss Brexit. Barry Gardiner was very clear on Question Time last week about the fact that Brexit, while, as you might say, the 'will of the people' has been a political choice and not an economic one - in other words, you can have it if you want, but don't expect it to be good for you. A bit more candour along those lines can only be a good thing, imo, both for the country and for the Labour Party.

And I also trust Gardiner, Thornberry and Starmer to do a way better job of negotiating in Brussels than the trifecta of idiocy that is Fallon, Johnson and Davis.

steppmum - he will pay for it by raising corporation tax to 26% (Thatcher got it down from 54% to 34% during her time in office so 26% is still not high).

He will also increase tax for the wealthiest 5%. The wealth gap between the top 5% rich and the rest has increased enormously under the tories. I'm sure we all know people who are absolutely sinking.

There is certainly money - it just depends where it goes. Imposing austerity was a political choice made by Cameron as it fits in with conservative ideology - a belief in a reduced state (NHS, education, libraries etc). The richest 5% have prospered under austerity and the poverty gap in this country has widenened - see oxfam - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37341095. This will continue under May as she has said she won't raise tax for the wealthy.

I think the tories have made so many people financially insecure that we have been tricked into beleiving there is no money. There is money. We are the 5th richest economy in the world. It is nearly impossible for an individual to become wealthy entirely on their own efforts. Most of the wealthiest people in the UK have inherited it their money from someone else, manage businesses (which involve other people working lower down the pay scale), juggle other peoples' money as bankers or lawyers, or deal in property other people live in. The questions is - should those people down the payscale or not in work have less so the wealthy can have more or should the wealthy should pay down a little so we can have a more equal society.

Corbyn has denounced racism and anti sematism in all its forms, he has said so over and over again.

Yet the party still has problems and people are still throwing anti semitic abuse around.

Oh i don't think its because they are altruistic either.

When Boris Johnson made negative remarks about Saudi Arabia's role in the Middle East, he was described as 'embarrassing' by the Guardian but when Corbyn criticises the Saudis, he's to be lauded?? How hypocritical.
TheMonkey of course the Saudis aren't being altruistic. Qatar has been a major destabilising influence in the region. Dh is Egyptian and was ecstatic at the news last night as Qatar has been very supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood. I was in Egypt when Morsi was ousted and it was a pretty scary time so I'm pleased to see their major backer taught a lesson.

labour maifesto is fully costed

ha bloody ha.

Let's take the tax thing. You know, it sounds great, except that all the finance whatsits that have commented on it say that as soon as you raise tax to 54p (or whatever) that companies find ways to take their money offshore and so not only are they then not paying the difference between the 45p and the 54p, they are also not even paying the 45p any more.
If you over regulate to stop them doing that, then they move their head office to another country and then you get even less money in the pot.

It has been tried before, and it doesn't work.

It is like the £350 million for Brexit. There never was £350 million and the mythical money was spent 10 x over.

There has never been a labour government where the government borrowing didn't rise. We can't afford to do that.

Um, I think the 'whatever' in terms of amount of tax is important (I grant you that the Tories don't seem to as they cba to cost their manifesto).

The Labour manifesto talks about raising corporation tax from 19p to 26p by 2020. Still below 2010 levels.

It wasn't Labour that promised £350m for Brexit. That was what the leave campaign promises they would give to the NHS.

There has never been a labour government where the government borrowing didn't rise. We can't afford to do that.
Can you provide evidence of that?

You are right, I apologise, it wasn't labour who promised the £350 million.

I meant it as an example of the same kind of headline catching, but entirely wrong economic thinking, that most people swallow hook line and sinker.

Tories biggest borrowers

It was on the radio programme More or Less a few weeks ago. I have seen it numerous times in print where it was a quote, but that would be the right wing press deluding us obviously....

I am not a tory supporter. It is entirely possible to think JC is not a good idea without thinking that the tories are the answer. No point in quoting tory mistakes to me, I am just as irritated by them, but this thread was about how wonderful labour is, and the hero worship is, to be honest, shocking.

Unless you lived through the 1970s you couldn't imagine how awful it was. What JNG says is absolutely true.
It was horrendous.

Labour planning to renationalise the railways. They were sold off because they made Southern Rail look like a first class service.
You bought your ticket, got on and hoped you would get to your destination before the driver was told he was on strike and you were left stranded at some random station

Imposing austerity was a political choice made by Cameron as it fits in with conservative ideology

Absolutely, impos!

The result has been, of course, a strangling of economic growth.

The unions now do not have anything like the powers they had in the 1970s. It's nonsensical to talk about going 'back to the 1970s.'

I lived through the 1970s and it was grim, although my family wasn't homeless as it would be now. There weren't the vast wealth inequalities that there are now. People could afford to buy houses or live in social housing. Young people could to to HE without incurring a lifetime debt. The NHS by and large worked.

They were sold off because they made Southern Rail look like a first class service.

The chief complaint was soggy sandwiches.

The fares today are so high, who can even afford a sandwich?

The cost of running the railway has more than doubled in real terms since privatisation from £2.4bn per year (1990–91 to 1994–95) to approximately £5.4bn per year (2005–06 to 2009–10).

Official figures show that all but one of the private train operators in the UK receive more in subsidies than they return in the form of franchise payments to the government. In 2013–14, the government contributed £3.8bn to the UK rail industry.

The top five recipients of public subsidy alone received almost £3bn in taxpayer support between 2007 and 2011. This allowed them to make operating profits of £504m – over 90 per cent (£466m) of which was paid to shareholders.

actionforrail.org/the-four-big-myths-of-uk-rail-privatisation/

Yes. Agree on this.

Cue tumbleweed from May supporters.

Cue tumbleweed from May supporters.

Following her lead. Tory silence.