To think Teresa May has just won the election?

[desertmum]

Listening to TM outside Downing Street vs JC - I think she may have just won the election - saying what people wnat to hear and hopefully some of what she says needs to be done will be followed through with.

YYY Rose.

Fucking hell, even Farage is sticking the boot in. What on earth.

Farage is all about Farage. He probably has no love for May because she didn't rush to have him knighted.

squoosh the Tories have cut the deficit by 2/3. This image is a good chart showing how deficit have grown and shrunk over time by each government: uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A9mSs2ih9jNZaFgA52BLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0ZTgxN3Q0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=uk+deficit+chart&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=0&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F3%2F20%2F1363802502484%2FDeficits-by-chancellor-001.jpg&action=click

Sqoosh They've reduced the deficit but increased the debt.

Rufus - my original point was why pick up on the use of the word "suspect" (as opposed to perpetrator, or terrorist, or criminal or whatever) - my reading of that was that we shouldn't be shooting people when they are only "suspected" of doing something (when in his case no-one sensible would argue they were not the men that did it). If that reading was wrong, then why bother picking up on one word in the speech to make a point?

Yes and it's going to take decades to clear up the debt and deficit left by GB and team. If you had any grasp of economics you'd realise you can't turn an economy round in a few years no matter how much we'd all like it.

Then why did the Tories claim they would clear the deficit within five years, then ten years, and now they're not sure when it will be? No grasp of economics or outright liars?

Also, not only have they not cleared the national debt, they have trebled it. It currently stands at £1.7 billion. That's not clearing up someone else's mess, it's an almighty cock up.

• trillion!

Sqoosh They've reduced the deficit but increased the debt.

Gosh darn it I would have made that mistake!

Then why did the Tories claim they would clear the deficit within five years, then ten years, and now they're not sure when it will be? No grasp of economics or outright liars?

Indeed!

Cutting fiscal spending strangles growth. Very foolish.

Yes and it's going to take decades to clear up the debt and deficit left by GB and team.

As squoosh pointed out - the Tories did nothing about the deficit, it worsened. In fact they borrowed more in their first three years than Labour did in the preceding THIRTEEN. While also scalping the disabled. And slashing vital services. So what have they done with all that money??

What the Tories really excel at is blaming Labour. Six/seven years on, they and their supporters are still blaming Labour. When there was nothing to blame Labour for (excepting the obvious example of Blair and the war - we'll be dealing with those repercussions for decades) when it was the American financial crisis that tipped us all into recession. If the Tories have got us back on our feet, why are there queues outside food banks on a daily basis?

They've reduced the deficit by cuts cuts and more cuts to police nhs disabled people and disadvantaged people

tookawhile I'm not sure there is a fix. It will take years to train police officers. Still longer to train firearms officers. Most of the British police have no desire to be armed.

Issues like the immediate suspension of an officer who has fired their gun, pending the 20/20 hindsight investigation by people who have never done your job don't help.

The law is plenty sufficient to do everything the police and security services need IMO. The ability to boot known extremists out the country is lacking, however even if it was possible, it doesn't touch the British born people.

The best people to advise are probably those who worked and lived through the IRA campaigns, but the IRA weren't out for world domination......

I don't think you and I were listening to the same speech OP. But to be honest it wouldn't have mattered much to me what she said today. I still would never in a million years vote for her party and what they stand for.

gunting Sun 04-Jun-17 12:57:17

I'd never thought I'd agree with Farage on anything.

Argh, its not so simple, you need to wipe out defict in order to reduce debt. Debt will always increase until the deficit is cleared.

eficit is that deficit represents the difference between income and spending at one point in time while debt represents the total amount of money owed, built up over a period of time. So reducing the deficit is not the same as reducing the debt.

To make this more clear, let’s imagine this:

A person overspends by £100 for five years – this is a deficit of £100 for five years running with an accumulated debt of £500.

They then manage to only overspend by £50 for the next three years – this is a deficit of £50 for three years running with a total accumulated debt of £650.

They then manage to actually save £100 for two years – this is a surplus of £100 for two years running, reducing the total accumulated debt to £450.

So even though they reduced their deficit after five years and ran a surplus for the last two years, they are still left with a debt of £450.

In the chart I posted LAbour had massively overborrowed to fund alot of stuff, this funding is promised so when Conversatives took over in the first year there is little they could do we were also in the recession at the time so were bailing out banks. After the first year the deficit was starting to be reduced and we were borrowing less! So it is wrong to say the Tories borrowed more. Thank to Labour we spent too much at the worst time possible.

Here is the chart again: uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=uk+deficit+chart&fr=mcafee&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F3%2F20%2F1363802502484%2FDeficits-by-chancellor-001.jpg#id=0&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F3%2F20%2F1363802502484%2FDeficits-by-chancellor-001.jpg&action=click

Garnethair not seen anything since this on Twitter 13hrs ago:

My thoughts are with all those affected by the incidents in London tonight

Weak as dishwater that one. Total embarrassment. I hope she's never the real Home Secretary.

You have to actually start thinking why when Labour had a surplus and the the economy started tanking worldwide brcause years leading up to 2008 there were warnings liek growth slowing etc. so why did we go on such a huge spending spree...we could of been in a stronger position had we stayed with a surplus when the recession hit.

National campaigning has been suspended for the day.

Just been reading up on JCs opinion and he is way to dangerous to be in charge of our countries defence and security.

Jeremy Corbyn said he is "not happy" with UK police operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in a terror attack, such an approach could "be counter-productive".

He refused to say whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

A few years ago he said “I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983”

Police powers mean fuck all if you haven't got enough police using them!!! Clever lady openly admitting she won't be halting the carnage of police cuts, just add to the burden on those left. As usual the bosses will move a few coppers away from something to go focus on the current threat, only to understandably then neglect the thing those 10 coppers were stripped from. Then the HMIC says they're doing crap, so they move those 10 coppers somewhere else to try to manage that. Investigation of any kind is very time and person consuming. Perhaps those backing the slashing to police budgets would like to offer up a list of what crimes can be dropped to deal with this threat as thoroughly as it needs to be.

home

I read it as gilly being concerned that TM was using the word suspect

I dont believe that gilly thought that they were actual suspects and shouldn't have been shot

TM should have said perpetrators or terrorists or gutless fuckwits

Even the Conservatives in my family think May has lost the election. Perhaps people swayed by empty rhetoric and by more indiscriminate state surveillance will be influenced by a speech but I don't know anyone that shallow.
Most people I know base their voting on issues like police numbers (which she cut) on the NHS (which the Tories have decimated) on foreign policy and arms sales.
I'd rather have essential services than surveillance and soundbites.

Vivienne Interesting.

Are you of the opinion that more officers on the beat are needed or within the security service or both? Because this issue is so often debated it's really good to get it from the horse's mouth.

I cannot stop think that all this is happening whilst Theresa May has been in charge (as home secretary and PM).

I am starting to think that Corbyn could be a strong and principled leader. We need change and he might be just the ticket. Again, for Labour supporters, please consider voting tactically.