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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there are a lot of Tory shills on this site at the moment?

123 replies

BertrandRussell · 01/06/2017 19:31

All these "I'm so sacred of Land Tax/is Corbyn a terrorist/the BBC is biased to Labour" threads can't be real, surely?

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Bourdic · 02/06/2017 07:32

Some posters are mixing up a good education, intellect, intelligence , cleverness and linking possession of any/all to political success. There are many many other attributes that contribute to political success/ greatness such as wisdom, experience, principles, courage, humanity - BJ for starters possesses none of these

Bourdic · 02/06/2017 07:33

In fact name me a member of the cabinet who does

picklemepopcorn · 02/06/2017 07:40

General Election 2017 Drinking Game:*

  1. Start now
  1. Don't stop*

YY. This please!

Every time, I'm disgusted by the personal attacks both sides make. Both sides have said and done despicable things which make it hard to vote for them. Still, somehow, we have to find a least bad option to vote for.

olliegarchy99 · 02/06/2017 07:46

frankly if you want to see leftie propoganda and name-calling - suggest you visit the 'news and politics' topic on Gransnet (free to join and no-one checks you are a granny) - MN is relatively balanced by comparison.Smile
I used to post on GN but there is a group of posters who are so corbyn luvvies they are off the scale (- that is sort of acceptable as it is their opinion) - but what is not acceptable is the vitriol and name-calling at those who do not accept thier views.

hackmum · 02/06/2017 07:51

I'd like to quote an article by Ronan Bennett from last year, who points out that Corbyn was demonstrating against apartheid back in the 70s and 80s - and this, incidentally, at a time when Thatcher was cosying up to the apartheid regime. He also campaigned against the wrongful conviction of the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six - and was vindicated.

Bennett goes on:

"On ID cards, on extended detentions, on equal pay and gender quality, on protection for workers and trade union rights, on anti-racism initiatives, on tax avoidance by the super rich, on the bedroom tax, on the recent welfare reform bill (Owen Smith? He abstained), on PFI – a massive, shameless scam perpetrated by financial institutions already as rich as Croesus, aided and abetted by government, that has brought the NHS to its knees – Corbyn and McDonnell called it right."

If that makes Corbyn a thicko, then I'm happy to vote for a thicko.

BertrandRussell · 02/06/2017 07:51

"Every time, I'm disgusted by the personal attacks both sides make"

I am a leftie but not a Corbynista. One of the things I do admire about him though is his complete refusal to descend to the ad hominem.

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Bourdic · 02/06/2017 07:52

Well just for a bit of balance , on GN there is a group of left of centre posters who are well informed, politically, socially and economically and a group of those to the right who, on the whole, are not and who believe that facts are optional extras in the forming of opinions. Recent posts on benefits and disabled people would make your hair curl.

Sittinonthefloor · 02/06/2017 08:00

No idea what a shill is, but the idea that anyone posting unfavourable things about JC must not be areal person or is some kind of infiltrator is nuts! It's an election with, y'know, different sides and there's meant to be discussion. I'm deffo a real person and been on mn for 10 years (Shockwhere has time gone!) and Corbyn et al properly terrify me with their incompetence, disingenuousness and utter implausibility. It stuns me that anyone can fall for it. Some of their ideas sound lovely, 'till you realise we can't afford them. But the thought of them running the country is horrific!

BertrandRussell · 02/06/2017 08:03

"No idea what a shill is, but the idea that anyone posting unfavourable things about JC must not be areal person or is some kind of infiltrator is nuts"

Yeah, that would be nuts, I agree.

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Sittinonthefloor · 02/06/2017 08:04

I rarely post on mn these days, lurk lots though. I'm posting now not as a Tory bot just a normal person who thinks Corbyn is threat to our country. Literally- we'll be breaking up with Scotland with him at the helm.

olliegarchy99 · 02/06/2017 08:10

bourdic
ah - I know you must be one of that large so-called 'well-informed' group then if you do not see the imbalance.
The constant links to things like sqwarkbox (!) and other dubious leftie organisations, the constant belittling of anyone who has a differant opinion and is equally as 'educated' and 'informed.
You must be 'whatsername' who always does the above - tedious poster on GN.

scaryclown · 02/06/2017 08:10

Oh fuck yes. I have worked for some of the most clueless thickies you can imagine who went to public School and top tier unis
We have illogical non numeric arts Wafflers running way too much in this country!

NameThatPrune · 02/06/2017 08:18

Agreed re Tory shills. They have a strangely similar wierd angry posting style too so easier to spot. Gin till election is done.
If there are Labour ones they are a bit more cheery and less obvious.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 02/06/2017 08:27

I notice that Bennett fella doesn't mention all the times Corbyn called it wrong - and frankly I wish we did have ID cards.

Are they really posting links to sqwawkbox? Last I saw, they were trumpeting 'sources' crediting Corbyn as getting Mo Mowlam into the peace process, acting as her go-between and encouraging her to go into the Maze. Funny how she forgot to mention him even though she publicly acknowledged everyone else involved. She also very badly misspelled Jeremy Corbyn as Gary McMichael when writing about the Maze episodes. Bloody autocorrect eh.

makeourfuture · 02/06/2017 08:28

Oh fuck yes. I have worked for some of the most clueless thickies you can imagine who went to public School and top tier unis

I read an article on the prevalence of the Oxford Philosophy, Politics and Economics degree amongst our "ruling class". First of all, according to the article, after the first year you drop one of those core areas....and most drop the economics.

But more to the point....if indeed this particular degree, at this particular university, is responsible for the levels of seeming ineptitude among the ruling class - should we look closer at it?

Because it isn't working right.

BertrandRussell · 02/06/2017 08:43

"Oh fuck yes. I have worked for some of the most clueless thickies you can imagine who went to public School and top tier unis"

They may be clueless. But they aren't thickies.

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hackmum · 02/06/2017 08:48

makeourfuture: the dominance of the political class by people who had a PPE degree from Oxford was one of claig's obsessions. Perhaps she had a point, who knows, though I'm reluctant to concede claig, who was on the far side of loopy, had a point on anything.

But it's perfectly possible to be intelligent in some respects and stupid in others - surely that's true of all of us? I think the danger comes in not knowing our own limitations, and not being willing to admit that we're ignorant about some things. For example, it doesn't bother me at all that Corbyn forgot some key numbers, because I know lots of perfectly intelligent people who find it hard to remember numbers under pressure. But it did bother me that Theresa May, when confronted by a woman with learning disabilities, seemed to confuse learning disabilities with mental health issues. That doesn't mean May is stupid, but it does suggest she's ignorant and needs to become better-informed.

It also bothered me last year that David Davis, the Brexit minister, didn't understand that it wasn't possible to do trade deals with individual EU countries. Again, I don't imagine he's stupid, but he is (or was) shockingly ignorant about a fundamental part of his brief.

Boris Johnson's jocular reference to whisky when he visited a Sikh Temple suggested he was unaware of the Sikh prohibition on alcohol. Perhaps not the worst mistake in the world, but surprising for a politician who, you'd think, would be mindful of cultural sensibilities. I'm pretty sure it's not a mistake you'd see Corbyn making.

TheNaze73 · 02/06/2017 08:49
Biscuit
Tamatoa · 02/06/2017 08:54

Honestly, some of the threads are what I'd like to post if mumsnet wasn't such an aggressively left wing place. The idea of land tax, that can balloon if your town becomes a des-res, sounds terrifying!

Moussemoose · 02/06/2017 08:55

hackmum I too am puzzled by the need for politicians, any politicians, to be able to remember figures. That might be because I can't remember my own phone number on a sunny day with no pressure. Does that mean I am stupid?

Also, just because you have a brilliant degree it does not mean you aren't thick.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 02/06/2017 08:55

surprising for a politician who, you'd think, would be mindful of cultural sensibilities. I'm pretty sure it's not a mistake you'd see Corbyn making

Corbyn didn't do too well at the anti-semitism report meeting when he compared Israel to Hamas

BertrandRussell · 02/06/2017 08:56

I don't have a problem with people forgetting a figure or fumbling on live radio/television. It's how you deal with making a mistake that's crucial.

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LadyinCement · 02/06/2017 08:59

I've seen "placed posts" from both sides. But I think the Tories have come a bit late to the party. Labour has had their social media machine working for ages. Dh is on quite high traffic "hobby" site which he reports has veered away from the hobby aspect to become a mouthpiece for a certain point of view. I presume the same is true for other sites, too, and indeed Twitter.

Fwiw I've been on MN for over ten years. I've no affiliation to any political party. But I'm bloody scared of the land tax!

hackmum · 02/06/2017 09:01

AllThePrettySeahorses: "Corbyn didn't do too well at the anti-semitism report meeting when he compared Israel to Hamas."

That entirely depends on your view of Israel, of course. Corbyn's point was that Jewish people are not responsible for some of Israel's more deplorable actions. Unless you're one of those people who thinks that Israel is above criticism, it's a perfectly reasonable point.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 02/06/2017 09:02

I agree it doesn't matter that Corbyn forgot the number - but why didn't he take a lovely, colourful bubble map with him with all the key points he'd need at a childcare policy launch? I didn't like the way he dropped his tablet like a naughty child either, when the presenter said was using it. He should have carried on - he wants to be PM doesn't he?

How many adults in this country? 50 million plus? And we pick one of these two to lead us. Are they really the best we can do?