To be scared of Labours Land tax

[Dragongirl10]

Just read about this, Labour are proposing a Land Value Tax on any land owned, could cost thousands a year for anyone even with a small house, not just the rich....they have not publicised this at all.

People with modest homes could be forced to sell or go into debt, or be repossessed...

You really think that all of this is down to life choice... Seriously? That is utterly naive.

Now you are putting words into my mouth.
I have never claimed to know 'the reason for all of this' but I did give you an example that I have direct experience of, and explained how it might be deemed unfair.
Just one example.
I seem to remember someone being critical of this thread because it's merely based an example Labour give in their manifesto of an alternative to council tax.

I would prefer to live in a society that values sensible spending and planning for the future, to one where people don't bother
I'm no economist, but I'm betting that it's healthier for an economy to have an aging population who can contribute for their own care rather than an aging population who have spunked their money, and now rely on the state.

You don't think people who have money should have to contribute to the running of the country NOW rather than when they were working 'hard' 10+ years ago...?

Ah, you mean like a ........ "dementia tax"??
I would rather my parents kept their house and savings so they could have them available until their death and any tax was could be taken at this point.

We are going to have to agree to disagree and wait until Friday morning's result, but I definitely believe that myself and my extended family pay/have paid, enough tax to not feel guilty that we have a comfortable life and enough left over to save for our futures.

Halle, see, I just don't get that argument. You FEEL that you have already paid enough tax. Who pays the tax but companies and higher earners? The vulnerable NEED the taxes paid. Our health and education NEED the taxes paid. Can't get my head round the idea that once "I'm alright jack" you get you get to decide that you have done enough. Especially when many will have had free education and healthcare and got on the property ladder at the right time.

People are dying and children are going without decent food. Teenage girls are going without san pro. The mentally ill are going without proper care. Benefit sanctions abound. But it's OK because you already did YOUR bit and people say they would leave the country rather than pay a few more quid. God forbid - no money left for French lessons, let's move to Dubai. It is BEYOND selfish.

plenty of multi-billion companies operate here and don't pay us a penny in corporation tax. For example the right-wing press and media companies

And if the boss or his wife live overseas, there may be no income tax from them either. For example the right-wing press and media companies

It's interesting to see that if new Rufus is telling the truth, he currently pays the same council tax on his multi-million mansion as Mrs Miggins down the road does on her £100,000 semi.

That sounds fair. Nice to know he can rely on the Daily Express to defend the interests of the superrich by publishing made-up scare stories.

But if he takes a job offer in Bermuda, he's suddenly a "tax evader". You couldn't make it up!

No, he would be a tax evader if he said he lived in Bermuda to avoid paying tax in the UK. Or however it is that the ridiculous tax loopholes that allow richer people to avoid paying tax work.

Sounds like your ex paid his taxes. If he chose to leave the UK because of a 5% raise on his earnings over 80k, then he still is not a tax evader, just someone who moved away.

Whats wrong is when people on high wages/businesses avoid paying their share, or avoid paying tax altogether! Heck, some companies earning millions have paid less tax than my father who is on just over 80k.

piglet you mean like the media company that owns the Guardian? Though isn't that left wing?

I would rather my parents kept their house and savings so they could have them available until their death and any tax was could be taken at this point.

You see I don't actually have an issue with this way round it. But once again is politically unpopular to tax after death which is why the threshold for inheritance tax keeps going up. Of course the really wealthy use loopholes which can be closed to avoid it again.

My point is that well off people at 65 can't just decide 'I've paid my bit and and am now keeping all I have' it's not fair or sustainable and there has to be a way of them contributing.

I also said upthread there is no way this LTV will happen anyway.

Some very daft logic going on here. Of course the wealthy contribute - they pay the majority of the tax the government receives. You can argue they should pay more but don't dismiss the fact that they are paying in a lot already.

As for wanting all the high earners to leave the country - that would include NHS consultants. Where are all these fully trained doctors ready to step into the breach for less money than they can earn in any other country? Wealthy employers may fail to pay all the tax they should but they also provide jobs. Those jobs often do not stay in the country when the employers leave as the companies prefer to operate in countries where they pay less tax. Hence governments may make more money from business if they have a low tax rate (and lower unemployment).

Of course the wealthy contribute - they pay the majority of the tax the government receives

No they don't because income tax is based on income not wealth. You understand the difference right?

Of course some wealthy people have high incomes so pay lots of tax but they don't all.

Its astonishing that the very people who pay the vast majority of tax to support the country are told they are selfish for not wanting to pay more.
Even the resolution foundation - a group which looks as the inequality in society has said that the ones with the most income are paying too much.

I am astounded at the figures which show just how much of a support that the higher incomes give.
If we need more tax then we all should pay some more.

Headofthehive55 I am struggling to feel sorry for those on higher incomes. You want people on lower pay to contribute more well anyone working in the public sector has had very low or no pay rise for over 5 years. NHS years of below inflation pay rises.
All these workers are effectively being taxed for doing jobs that help society. Some of these workers are already very poor. So I am struggling to feel sorry for the wealthy who don't want to contribute more.

My point is that well off people at 65 can't just decide 'I've paid my bit and and am now keeping all I have' it's not fair or sustainable and there has to be a way of them contributing

What about those people (disabled excepted) who have never contributed. When are they going to contribute.

No they don't because income tax is based on income not wealth. You understand the difference right

But isn't wealth just taxed income you haven't spent?

mousse I think you are confusing your feeling with envy.
You want the services, you should pay.
I say this as a not a well paid NHS worker.

Fairness is everyone contributing not leaving it to the few.

Everyone who has an income contributes, it's called income tax. We vote for a Parliament who make a decision and we abide by the rules. Unless we can employ an accountant or bugger off to Bermuda.

Be careful with that 'envy' argument, you'll be saying I'm just jealous next and that's a whole other thread

What is your opinion on celebrities who espouse certain political views and then are found to be evading tax? Yes, evading . Surely even avoidance is not morally acceptable if they are saying that those without the means to avoid tax (ie specialist schemes rather than ISAs etc) should be paying more?

I don't think you need to worry, unless of course you own half of Suffolk or somewhere. You don't own half of Suffolk do you, OP? It's just strange the amount of entirely unbiased posters who are now coming on here to get us stressing about the value of our two up, two downs.

LadyinCement my opinion of celebrities in general is related to the reason for their celebrity.
I am puzzled that you think my opinion about tax avoidance or evasion would change because someone is famous. Do I come across as that vacuous?

Oliversmumsarmy no of course wealth isn't just taxed income you've never spent.

If you bought your house for 17k in 1980 and it is now worth 400k, you haven't paid 1p of tax on the 383k you've profited from the housing market by, and won't if you sell the house and spend or cleverly gift the money to evade inheritance tax and contributing to care.

Even people without an income pay tax btw - VAT is the tax that hits the very poor the hardest, and in fact those on very tiny incomes pay a greater % of their income in indirect taxation.

Such people should perhaps take comfort in the fact that a land value tax is not a policy proposed by any UK party, and that the suggestion, in this thread's opening post, is false.

The opening post of this thread says:

^"Just read about this, Labour are proposing a Land Value Tax on any land owned, could cost thousands a year for anyone even with a small house, not just the rich....they have not publicised this at all.

People with modest homes could be forced to sell or go into debt, or be repossessed..."^

Which is false.

Here's an easy question for you.

Theresa hasn't proposed an annual bicycle registration tax.

But if she did, and if it was one thousand pounds per bicycle per year, how would families cope?

For a single well-paid person with just one bike, a thousand pounds a year might be affordable. But what if you are a family with four cycles and only one earner?

Wouldn't you agree that this proves Theresa has no understanding of the stresses and costs facing family cycle-owners?

Many older people still have bikes they bought years ago, and may since have fallen on hard times. Some of them may have two or three old bikes in the shed.

Surely it can't be fair that old people who hardly ever use their bikes may have to pay as much as half their pension on Theresa's new tax?