...about a 'delicate' friend?

[Nettletheelf]

I'm part of a group of six who have been friends for more than twenty years. We're all women in our forties.

We live in different parts of the country and go on holiday together twice a year: city breaks, spa breaks, that sort of thing.

One of our number (who I'm less friendly with than the others, but whom I still like) regards herself as 'delicate'. She has never been diagnosed with any health problems, but her delicacy manifests itself as follows:

• nights out have to be curtailed early because she 'gets tired easily' and can't go back to the hotel or airBnB on her own.

• many restaurant and cafe options are rejected because she has a delicate digestion and the menu doesn't suit it.

• when we find a restaurant or cafe that fits the specification, she has to choose the best chair because of her delicate joints.

• when we order wine in a restaurant, she won't have the same as everybody else because whatever everybody else likes somehow upsets her delicate stomach.

• says that she never sleeps in hotels or unfamiliar bedrooms, so everybody has to walk slowly in the morning because she is exhausted.

We've just returned from a trip, so I'm more irritated than I'd normally be. What I don't get is how she manages to take so many people in. Am I the unreasonable one? There's nothing medically wrong with the woman.

After a long-ish day out on our most recent trip, we decided to sit on the balcony and have a glass of wine. Delicate friend decided that she was going straight to bed because she was tired through not sleeping in unfamiliar beds, etc. After she said goodnight, one of the other members of the group said, "X has done well today hasn't she?"

Me: "Done well how?"

Friend: "well, it's been a long day and it's late for her" (it was 10.30 pm)

Me: "She's a grown up. She can cope with being up until 10.30".

Friend: "but she's a delicate little flower, isn't she?"

Me (laughing): "she's no more delicate than you or I!"

I resent being part of what feels like a ridiculous pantomime in which we're all expected to dance attendance on the dainty, delicate one. I think that cultivating 'delicacy' is a very good way of getting other people to dance to your tune.

Am I right or am I just intolerant?

Luckily I only see this particular friend twice a year. I see the others far more regularly.

if it's a friend, you'd be nice about it

It's not 'nice' to behave manipulatively to your friends. And it's totally insulting to use illness and pain as a perk or something.

There's no reason she'd lie

I love this. It's like people who tell you their 5 year old won't ever lie.

She sounds like a PITA...

And I've had depression and have been that person that wants to go to bed early, wants to be alone, wants everyone to be quiet.

But when it gets so bad that you're inconveniencing everyone, I just didn't go on the group holiday. Not really fair on the others, is it?

There's no reason she'd lie

Some people lie all the time. About things that aren't even interesting or important.

Does not look like somebody with a food intolerance.
How should someone with food intolerance look. To all intents and purposes I look fairly healthy but if I eat certain foods you can guarantee I will end up in hospital.

Works full time
So do I but have to go to bed as soon as I have eaten my tea so I am in bed for 8:00pm every night.

I do realise what you are trying to say but some of your choices of words are ...... a little inappropriate.

What a massive pain in the arse OP. I second the revolution and also think you should throw the 3 panderers under the bus if needs be. E.g Delicate needs to go now - 'Panderer 1 will go with you', Delicate wants expensive wine - 'Panderers 2 and 3 will share with you' etc. That'll learn 'em.

Aha! Now, by criticising my 'delicate' friend's behaviour, I am not only sneering at people with MS, I am also failing to show sufficient sympathy to food intolerances.

Here is what 'doesn't look like somebody with a food intolerance' means: if she were truly allergic to half of the foodstuffs and drinks she claims to have been intolerant to over the years, she probably wouldn't be a sturdy, healthy looking woman with a good colour in her cheeks and healthy hair and nails. Good old Occam and his razor again!

Your post reminded me of her very strongly of a friend I have who comes to visit us from my home country and for whom we have to make many 'adjustments' around things like food etc. I do not believe they are formal intolerances, just preferences, but she may have other anxiety issues which feed into the whole picture, if that makes sense. I guess DH and I have always assumed this to be the case, that somewhere lurking is a diagnosis of some kind she'd prefer not to share (she is very private in some ways) which is kind of why I would say we have tolerated it. The behaviours can be very annoying though and are all suggestive of 'oh poor me, look after me, I just can't quite manage for myself.' She's been to see us several times but in the run up to her holiday I have to spend a lot of time on small 'favours' organising her trip - assisting with cabs/other transport issues, planning activities, etc. Things to be honest a perfectly able adult with access to the internet and experience of the country should be able to sort out for herself. She seems to NEED me to help somehow, this is important to her.

One year she needed a very specific and niche bit of help with something and my friend, for various reasons, ended up getting involved. Not sure that went ESPECIALLY well but my friend is too polite to say...

It's very hard to explain what it's like with people like this, OP, but I know where you're coming from. It sort of crept up on us - it's like a gathering of small things which taken together suddenly start to seem demanding but then you start questioning yourself when you're thinking through the individual requests. And there is the added element of: "what if something really is wrong" which makes you give them the benefit of the doubt. After the last trip we really felt a bit had, though. But - I still don't know.

When she arrives she also doesn't pay for anything - she seems to take the view that it's perfectly reasonable for DH and me to look after her. It does feel like having DM or MIL to stay TBH.

My MIL is like this OP.
It gets worse not better.
And now she's old and actually has got some real health problems it's almost as though she's wearing a badge of honour.

Oh how little you know of food intolerances but hey ho each to their own. Those you dish it out generally can't take it.

I agree with you op. She sounds pita, I would have very little tolerance for someone like this.

You are in an awkward position in that the group of mutual friends put up with her. She can't be chucked out which if she was a one to one friend , I would do.
As a hard hearted, hard faced, intolerant, and can't tolerate fools type, I would not allow this individual to dictate, manipulate or ruin my hard earned time away.

Shame you can't step away and avoid, or can you?

*those who

No one said you were sneering at MS sufferers. Now who's being the delicate snowflake?
Your turn of phrase is a bit curious; your friend sounds like a PITA; you don't seem prepared to confront her but are happy to bitch about her with other friends.
Do what you like, op. Just remember that some people are snowflakes and some are genuinely ill but are too embarrassed to say it. And some are a mixture of both.

Might suggest we go somewhere she doesn't like next time.

Dear Nelie, au contraire, I am perfectly happy for anybody to criticise me for the following:

• making up food intolerances, then thriving on the foods I claimed to be intolerant to, to the point of being incapacitated, two years ago.

• trying to manipulate my friends into doing what I want using unproven 'delicacy'.

Don't worry, I can take it! I have no concerns, because I don't do any of those things.

Incidentally, re working full time being cited as evidence against 'delicacy': I don't see why you are offended. You say that you are going to bed at 8 pm, exhausted. My friend goes out dancing until late three times a week. See? It forms part of an evidence base.

Didn't RossGeller'steeth put the MS misconception to bed upthread?

Somebody went off on a tangent about MS, ignoring the fact that my friend (1) does not have MS and (2) dances three evenings a week. RossGeller'steeth neatly quoted the poster's own words back at them.

This thread has nothing to do with MS, or people who are genuinely ill feeling tired. It has everything to do with manipulative people pretending to be ill, so the complaints about 'sneering' were entirely misplaced.

You are completely missing the point - you said Does not look like somebody with a food intolerance I simply asked why what do they look like. Your response was that of someone who does not know or speaks from a place of ignorance on the matter. It has nothing to do with your friend but with your wording.

Yeah. Things are going round in circles. I'm done. Hope you find a resolution Nettletheelf that's kind and dramaless for you and your friends.

It actually has got to do with her friend. It's her thread, that's about her friend.

Are you sure she doesn't have a condition? I have a couple of health conditions which mean I can often act this way. A very close friend didn't even realise until 2 years ago despite us having been friends for 10+ years that they were actual, diagnosed conditions. She probably spent the last 10 years think I was a flimsy flower, too.

I'm really confused as to why posters on mumsnet appear to suggest the OP has not considered the possibility that an irritating person may be like this because of the illness/condition they, themselves, have and then go on to describe a completely different set of circumstances: I have MS/CFS/a delicate constitution, although I don't expect other people to change plans. Whereas the OP's friend does expect this. I have an illness and work full time but need to rest when I get home. The friend doesn't do this, they go dancing several times a week. I know someone who suddenly became delicate and then turned out to have a terminal illness. The OP has known this friend for a long time, it's not a sudden change. I have food intolerances and struggle with these. Do your intolerances change regularly and do they really require you to stipulate where people are allowed to eat? I agree with the Occam's Razor approach. The most obvious suggestion for the described pattern of behaviours is that the friend is manipulative and attention-seeking. It is the expectations of the friend that annoy the OP, not the restrictions themselves.

I'm sorry but I'd have asked her what exactly is wrong with her long ago. But I'm the kind to be pretty open with friends so wouldn't think twice of telling friends if I've got piles or the shits or anything wrong with me. Sharing is caring!

Nettletheelf does DLF make a lot of fuss as well over it?

The friend is expecting her friends to tolerate her 'delicacy'.

nights out have to be curtailed early because she 'gets tired easily' and can't go back to the hotel or airBnB on her own so she expects others to curtail the evening because she's had enough?

Do you all share a room? I can see DLF getting woken up if she goes to bed early and is then woken up by the others coming in later on, no matter how quiet you are. Also, I can sympathise with her not wanting to go home from a night out on her own. Could two people escort her home then rejoin everyone so no-one is wandering around on their own? Or does she just want Fun To Stop when she has had enough?

You sure she doesn't have a drug addiction? I often pass my habit off as "tired", "feeling ill, "needing an early night" etc....