...about a 'delicate' friend?

[Nettletheelf]

I'm part of a group of six who have been friends for more than twenty years. We're all women in our forties.

We live in different parts of the country and go on holiday together twice a year: city breaks, spa breaks, that sort of thing.

One of our number (who I'm less friendly with than the others, but whom I still like) regards herself as 'delicate'. She has never been diagnosed with any health problems, but her delicacy manifests itself as follows:

• nights out have to be curtailed early because she 'gets tired easily' and can't go back to the hotel or airBnB on her own.

• many restaurant and cafe options are rejected because she has a delicate digestion and the menu doesn't suit it.

• when we find a restaurant or cafe that fits the specification, she has to choose the best chair because of her delicate joints.

• when we order wine in a restaurant, she won't have the same as everybody else because whatever everybody else likes somehow upsets her delicate stomach.

• says that she never sleeps in hotels or unfamiliar bedrooms, so everybody has to walk slowly in the morning because she is exhausted.

We've just returned from a trip, so I'm more irritated than I'd normally be. What I don't get is how she manages to take so many people in. Am I the unreasonable one? There's nothing medically wrong with the woman.

After a long-ish day out on our most recent trip, we decided to sit on the balcony and have a glass of wine. Delicate friend decided that she was going straight to bed because she was tired through not sleeping in unfamiliar beds, etc. After she said goodnight, one of the other members of the group said, "X has done well today hasn't she?"

Me: "Done well how?"

Friend: "well, it's been a long day and it's late for her" (it was 10.30 pm)

Me: "She's a grown up. She can cope with being up until 10.30".

Friend: "but she's a delicate little flower, isn't she?"

Me (laughing): "she's no more delicate than you or I!"

I resent being part of what feels like a ridiculous pantomime in which we're all expected to dance attendance on the dainty, delicate one. I think that cultivating 'delicacy' is a very good way of getting other people to dance to your tune.

Am I right or am I just intolerant?

Luckily I only see this particular friend twice a year. I see the others far more regularly.

You don't need to be sorry for my friend, because all the evidence suggests that there is nothing wrong with her.

For the twentieth time: this thread is not about criticising people who are genuinely ill. It is about people affecting delicacy in order to get their own way all the time.

Yeah! Take turns!

Before you go out, draw straws on who has to be the one to curtail the evening. Then the others can divide the disappointment of not eating what they want or where they want and/or having the drink they wanted

Do it openly and maybe she'll cop herself on

that will NEVER EVER HAPPEN

Ah mate our group had one of them. After seeing all sorts of doctors she went private and when they told her there was nothing wrong she self diagnosed with fibro and tells everyone that she has a formal diagnosis. Yet one night whilst pissed she told us she'd diagnosed herself otherwise people "wouldn't take her seriously". @CloudPerson I've got EDS & the difference is I don't go around telling everyone I'm a delicate flower and I need the most comfortable chair etc. I get on with it or bail out graciously whilst saying have a fab time! Bring me home a kebab!

Can I ask if somebody in your group has told your friend that the group is happy to accommodate her needs when inviting her along?

I only ask because I know somebody who has a chronic illness that means she is exhausted after any kind of activity (and I mean totally wiped out to a truly debilitating degree). When this happens she struggles with sleep.

Overdoing it could be nothing more than watching TV and going to bed after 9pm when she is especially ill. She copes at the time and doesn't feel too tired to do the activity. She certainly doesn't come across as being ill in any way - but it really hits her afterwards for days (sometimes weeks) after a night out.

To avoid being a party pooper or so exhausted she can't function in her day to day life she has had to stop going out. But she really values her friends and sometimes they persuade her to join them for a celebration, knowing that she will not be able to hack a very late night. They are very kind and lovely and happy to accommodate her when she does go out with them.

The result is a kind of compromise where they spend time together doing something that is probably a bit much for her but very tame compared to what they would do if she wasn't with them.

Maybe your friend thinks that is what you are all doing for her.

In the case of the person I know her wider circle of friends probably don't know that she has this condition because she doesn't want to be treated like an invalid. They may well wonder why she gets such a say in what time everyone heads back when she is part of the group.

I'm just wondering if your friend might be in a similar situation. If she is then maybe she'd rather have a conversation about it than allow it to spoil your weekends away together.

I only made my point to suggest that there may well be something behind this behaviour.
Very often people take huge umbrage at making any allowances at all.
Like I said, if you're not happy about it, put some plans in place so it doesn't affect you.
If you are the only one of the group who has a problem though, you might have to accept it or back out.

No, nobody says, "come along and we'll make all the adjustments you want for your [imaginary] medical condition".

Our friend does not have a diagnosed medical condition. She's not especially close to me, but she is to two of the other members of the group. If she had a real medical condition, they would know.

Besides which, if she works full time, travels for work and goes out dancing three times a week it's not very likely that she has an illness that causes chronic fatigue, is it?

nettle When she says she can't go back on her own has nobody ever asked her why?

"Besides which, if she works full time, travels for work and goes out dancing three times a week it's not very likely that she has an illness that causes chronic fatigue, is it?"

Not to push the point, but my friend keeps up this kind of lifestyle, but it is very carefully managed. Anything extra needs to be handled very carefully or not done at all.
With chronic illnesses (and I'm not saying she definitely is ill, just that it's impossible to rule out as someone who sees her a couple of times a year) it's not uncommon for someone to manage fatigue but struggle outside of the normal routine.

Not to push the point, but my friend keeps up this kind of lifestyle, but it is very carefully managed.

Who by, though?

So having an illness means you get to control all your nights out and expect your friends to stop enjoying themselves if you yourself feel tired? Sorry but having an illness doesn't make you like that and if it does the friends shouldn't be expected to cater and maybe she should not go on the holiday or arrange something closer to her home.

I would be gutted if my friends thought I was a pain in the arse but I know one or two more robust friends probably do think I'm a bit of a princess at times

They'll only think you're a pain in the arse if you are being a pain in the arse. If you don't act like OP's friend, you're ok.

IME, people who are actually delicate or ill or disabled go out of their way NOT to impact on others. Too much so, often. People don't mind accomodating genuine need at all.

Pigeon, by herself.
The few times she does anything extra she has friends who understand her and are willing to help her where they can.
She's not demanding though, although before her official diagnosis she was accused of such.

Even if there's a genuine reason she sounds like a massive pain in the hole to be around.

I think you and your pals have been very indulgent towards this special wee snowflake.

Exactly - ill people still have responsibility for themselves. Expecting other people to look after you and alter their (costly, infrequent) plans when they haven't been told that's what they're doing in order to agree to it is awful behaviour.

*Didn't RossGeller'steeth put the MS misconception to bed upthread?

Somebody went off on a tangent about MS, ignoring the fact that my friend (1) does not have MS and (2) dances three evenings a week. RossGeller'steeth neatly quoted the poster's own words back at them.

This thread has nothing to do with MS, or people who are genuinely ill feeling tired. It has everything to do with manipulative people pretending to be ill, so the complaints about 'sneering' were entirely misplaced.*

OP. Now, if you and Ross had read properly, the comment -which was mine - was that the tone of the posters on this thread was sneery, and I found that upsetting. It had nothing to do with MS. HTH.

nettle When she says she can't go back on her own has nobody ever asked her why?

I also want to know. What kind of illness prevents her from taking a cab by herself to the hotel?

OP I'm with you. She's a PITA. I know because I have a friend like this. She has pulled stunts such as making us all go to a breakfast we were all very much looking forward to late, because she absolutely could only eat Kellogg's Crunchy Nut at home beforehand due to her "delicate" system. She chews slowly, so as to not upset her "delicate" digestion. We finally make it to the breakfast place an hour late where all along she had insisted she would only sit with us, not eat. Guess who ordered the chilli scrambled eggs with a whole bunch of other stuff you would think her "delicate" system wouldn't take?

This wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't so frequent, but it is. I think the real issue is these Delicate people not only want to be treated with kid gloves, they then want to do all their friends are doing too, which goes against the "delicate"-ness of their constitution.

You know, nobody has ever asked why she can't get a cab on her own (I have wanted to do so several times but when the others are fussing around DLF I've felt that it would create conflict and ruin the weekend away).

Quite often we're in a foreign city, so perhaps DLF and the pandering friends think that she can't possibly be put at risk in a taxi driven by somebody foreign, or something!

I also wonder whether one or two of the panderers quite like feeling needed, which is why they put up with it.

OP. Now, if you and Ross had read properly, the comment -which was mine - was that the tone of the posters on this thread was sneery, and I found that upsetting

Why shouldn't it be sneery? It's about a selfish person pretending to be disabled in some way to gain sympathy. Why would you find that upsetting?

Sigh. Can we deal with the 'sneering' once and for all?

Theclaws, your first post, upthread, went like this (summarised):

• you are delicate
• you have MS
• you get tired easily
• you never tell anybody about your illness
• you don't like the 'sneery' tone of the thread.

Rossgeller'steeth correctly pointed out that you and another poster (who made a series of posts telling me, variously, to 'mind my own business', 'stop bitching') etc then agreed with each other that you were fellow MS sufferers and you didn't like the [apparent] sneering. In other words, you insinuated that people on the thread were sneering at people with MS, or people who are otherwise suffering from debilitating diseases.

This is a thread about somebody affecting delicacy, not about people who are genuinely ill.

Some posters have responded to the behaviour I have described by opining that my friend is a PITA. That's a justified view. How is that sneering, when another poster describing me as a bitch is not?

I'm sorry for your troubles, but hijacking threads to moan about 'sneering' (when you'll find that every AIBU thread contains negative comment, or 'sneering' if you like, to some degree: you clearly chose this one because of the title, even though the subject of the thread, as I state in my OP, isn't delicate at all) isn't really on. Nor is trying to pretend that other posters can't read properly.

Thanks peanutbutter!

Wow, op. You really can't get over this, can you?

get over what?

The delicate friend sounds like hard work and she needs to understand that the rest of you aren't "delicate" so if she can't handle normal days and nights out then she shouldn't go. She sounds spoilt and she likes everything to be done her way and she likes attention.

Don't know how this has become a bunfight

Yep attention seeker OP. I used to have a 'delicate' friend exactly like that.
On holiday I once made dinner for all of us Inc her dh and kids. It was spaghetti Bolognese. After not offering to help and hiding in room next door she came in clutching a bowl of soup and said she could only eat Penne pasta but not Spaghetti because she had an intolerance to it. Different shape same ingredients!