To be ashamed of Theresa May's slant on immigration

[thinkiamgoingcrazy]

No mention by her last night of the many positives. Or the net contribution that immigration makes to the coffers. Just a focus on bringing those numbers down because "that's what people want" and "for lots of reasons".

(Yes there have been issues in some places that have seen a huge increase in incomers, and where there has been a large downward pressure on wages. I am not saying nothing has to be done, but the first call IMO, should have been better investment in those areas and better monitoring and policing of unscrupulous employment practices.)

Instead, and since the Tory conference last year, the language that is being used is unfriendly, divisive and excluding. Also some of the policies that are being planned.

I think that it would benefit our country more, as well as the many contributing and hard working people from other countries who live and bring up their families here, if the rhetoric were more welcoming and inclusive. Not only that but people that we need are either leaving or not coming here. IMO that's embarrassing and shameful. How sad that numbers will go down / have been going down, because our brand is now inward looking and closed . I really don't think that this makes economic, political or social sense.

Agreed make - same with the NHS. But not every immigrant in the U.K. is a university researcher or a doctor!

There's usually a self serving motive especially in terms of money and nobody is moving here for free to nobly save the British poor.

Has anybody suggested that immigrants were doing this?

Even so, other European countries health care systems seem to get by with 5% (Italy), 10.5% (Germany) and 15% (France) foreign qualified doctors, while the UK has 35%, according to the OECD. So it looks like we could be doing a lot more in training British people for these jobs.

But not every immigrant in the U.K. is a university researcher or a doctor!

Why should they be though?

I am not sure what the answer is, but the language the Tories use is not it IMO. The othering that has been legitimised since the referendum is awful.

Can you please explain what you mean by 'othering' ?

I used to live near Slough and now live in an area that is definitely Middle England. My parents were both immigrants and came over because there was a shortage of their skills. I voted Leave and DH voted Remain.

There is no way that the mainly Asian people living in Slough were net contributors. Working in a factory as Dot says with 3 kids and a wife who doesn't work and barely speaks English will not make you a net contributor! You will be claiming tax credits, CB, going to free schools, using the NHS all on a factory wage.

A builder who did some work on our old house was born in Slough yet he feels a stranger in his own community. He feels pushed out. He was getting undercut by the blackmarket labour from the EU.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but isn't a net contributor someone who earns over £30K and surely if you have 2 + children it has to be more?

We absolutely do need to control immigration. As a PP said - there aren't many people emigrating to Romania or Bulgaria!

Has anybody suggested that immigrants were doing this?

The language of respecting immigrants, their families and their descendants because of their contribution does rather suggest that they've automatically done something exceptional rather than going out and doing a job just like the rest of us.

The language of respecting immigrants, their families and their descendants because of their contribution does rather suggest that they've automatically done something exceptional rather than going out and doing a job just like the rest of us.

This is the classic attacking people for something they didn't say and wrong trousers is right, it is a tactic used far too often.

There is a very long way between saying immigration brings "absolutely nothing of value" AND suggesting each and every single immigrant is "doing something exceptional".

I don't believe you can't see that.

By "othering" I mean using language and carrying out actions that separate the "indigenous" people (who are these people in any case?) from the others, many of whom now feel like outsiders, despite in many cases contributing for many years and having families - often with British partners and children. The overton window has definitely shifted to the right and it's not a good thing.

As someone said upthread - changes to welfare entitlements and possible brakes on free movement had been negotiated by Cameron, but he did not do enough to sell the benefits of the EU presumably because he didn't really believe in it. So now we have an avalanche of anti-immigrant feeling and jingoism instead. Which will get us nowhere IMO. In fact it will be detrimental to us in many ways.

And still the areas that most need investing in remain unhelped. May et al don't care about the JAMs, they are full of hot air and all about the Tory party.

I find the idea of being born in a certain place means exemptions from certain social expectations placed on immigrants.

I'd rather a country full of immigrant net contributors as opposed to the UK born breeders who demand lots of school places for their small tribes as well as complain that text credits are not enough. Perhaps we could move the indigenous non net contributors to some unused land in the Highlands and Islands and help them become self sufficient? Would reduce the pressure on services and house prices if we reduced our assessment value of human beings down to their economic cost and contribution.

Investing in your new community, learning the language, contributing to your new country is not what I say. Communities stuck to each other like glue meaning no intergration.

Instead of throwing money at these areas how about the people arriving do something for themselves. Learn the language as a priority, try out new shops, embrace the culture, don't keep to your own communities rules ie FGM, Sharia law etc - and dare I say it ban the burka!

Integration takes place over time and in an atmosphere of acceptance. Many people are already integrated. They are not going to be carbon copies of the locals that have been there the longest.

By investing I mean in general - what happened to the Northern powerhouse? Why isn't a new runway suggested in the North? Why an HS2 to Birmingham and not further North? Why are all the political meeting places in London? What about investing heavily in green energy like the Germans have and setting this up all over the UK in areas of unemployment? Etc.

Er, HS2 goes much further north than Birmingham. And the Northern powerhouse is still a thing.

And we are investing heavily in energy. See Hinckley Point.

Okay well I knew I was going to make a stupid mistake but you get my gist. "Er" doesn't really change the fact that investment is Southern centric, and that many communities are still left behind. Not due to immigration but due to generations of neglect. It's not only the North either.

They might all still be things, but not enough of a thing IMO. They are not advertised enough, and there is little mention of them by the Tories. I never get the feeling that this is a country excited about the future and the possibilities that exist. Endless talk of austerity while awarding themselves pay rises and tax cuts is not the language of progress and inclusivity. Why MPs should get pay rises every year when so many others don't is blatant disrespect IMO, and they aren't the worst offenders.

And IMO, immigration (albeit managed to a degree to avoid the downward pressure on wages) is part of the lifeblood which keeps a country from stagnating.

(Though it was a stupid mistake).

I thought there were massive problems with Hinckley Point? Didn't the French pull out? So it's just the Chinese doing it?

I beg to differ regarding Slough and intergration!

Nope, EDF still very much onboard.

Scottish has a point though. Immigrants are often not anywhere near net contributors. There is a great sense of entitlement now that wasn't around when I was growing up amongst the population as a whole. To have the latest gadget and to take and take from a system regardless of what they have put in. Woe betide anytime who suggests you might have to work or plan to buy something.

People who work the minimum 16 hours to then be topped up with tax credits and who complain about the immigrants who are taking their jobs in farms and coffee shops. Jobs they really don't want to do because it would actually mean working.

My DM was a teacher and she worked in an inner London school. The amount of parents who would send their kids to school with no breakfast, who would claim that the uniform was too expensive and put their child in a designer trainer instead and who would rarely appear at parents evening because they couldn't be bothered.

I think I'd muddled up several different half remembered bits of HP news Bill

I think Marine Le Pen threatened to pull out if she was elected.

Who is doing this "othering" thinkiamgoingcrazy? Have we now got laws with are 'othering; people by intent?

Or are you worried that there are indiginous British people out there who don't wish to be a minority in their country of their ancestors?

And IMO, immigration (albeit managed to a degree to avoid the downward pressure on wages) is part of the lifeblood which keeps a country from stagnating

Can you explain what this means please? Do you mean economically, culturally, religiously, socially, in terms of progressiveness and equality? In what way will the population of the UK "stagnate" without immigration?

The population won't stagnate if immigration is reined in significantly. This isn't Japan.