To be ashamed of Theresa May's slant on immigration

[thinkiamgoingcrazy]

No mention by her last night of the many positives. Or the net contribution that immigration makes to the coffers. Just a focus on bringing those numbers down because "that's what people want" and "for lots of reasons".

(Yes there have been issues in some places that have seen a huge increase in incomers, and where there has been a large downward pressure on wages. I am not saying nothing has to be done, but the first call IMO, should have been better investment in those areas and better monitoring and policing of unscrupulous employment practices.)

Instead, and since the Tory conference last year, the language that is being used is unfriendly, divisive and excluding. Also some of the policies that are being planned.

I think that it would benefit our country more, as well as the many contributing and hard working people from other countries who live and bring up their families here, if the rhetoric were more welcoming and inclusive. Not only that but people that we need are either leaving or not coming here. IMO that's embarrassing and shameful. How sad that numbers will go down / have been going down, because our brand is now inward looking and closed . I really don't think that this makes economic, political or social sense.

Immigration has brought ordinary people absolutely nothing of value and the extra tiny percentage on GDP has come at great cost.

I'd like to see an end, or at least a drastic reduction of Muslim immigrants brought into this country.

What did I misunderstand about these two comments?

Why are those views being defended while apparently I am the one twisting their views. (even though I cut and pasted them!)

Oh well, I may be a terrible person but at least I don't go around with nasty opinions like those.

There are too many people in the country already. Local services can't cope!

I've seen it first hand! My maternity ward closed with both my children because it was full. I can't get a doctors or dentist appointment, my local school is full, flats are popping up everywhere, impacting on already busy roads - everything and everywhere is pretty full around London and suburbs, where I am. We need to start looking after everyone we have here properly first and put proper infrastructure in place.

Tories have been banging on about immigration for a decade.

Nothing.

Tories have been banging on about Debt for a decade.

Nothing.

Tories have been banging on about post Brexit....

Nothing.

No plans, no vision, no achievement.

Nothing.

Just insults.

histiny you haven't answered my question - do you support completely uncontrolled immigration?

No one is supporting anything. You disagree with the view that Muslim immigration should be limited, fine. What you don't suggest is what should happen though, instead you just namecall other people for views that you disagree with.

And in terms of the 1000 what should it be? It's just a number. 10,000; 100,000; 1,000,000 I see no logic for any of them tbh.

And it was 100,000 anyway, just goes to show really.

when in fact it prioritises white people for migration around Europe. That to me seems quite racist as a principle.

That depends on whether one adheres to the notion that holding European nationality is synonymous with having white ethnicity, doesn't it?

I was getting to it, increasingly, And I didn't namecall other people for views, thank you. And I have just been called a terrible person!

Do you accept that immigration needs to be controlled somehow or are you in favour of an absolute global free for all?

If people voted to leave the EU because of immigration, they really need to wake up fast. We are likely to have FAR MORE migrants from Africa and Asia (thats extra Muslims to you, catnips). This is going to be extraordinary expensive for us. - (Plus the financial effects of leaving the EU is going to be devastating) Still worth it, eh.

I'm not in complete favour of global free for all, no. But we didn't have a global free for all anyway. Plus, we had just negotiated with the EU an emergency brake that would have protected our benefit system and services further. Successive Govts COULD have done more. They didn't.

The good thing for you guys though, is that as the economy gets worse, we will become much less appealing to migrants. 40,000 left I believe since the ref. Result!

The fact that so many posters have read a post that said 'immigration has brought ordinary people absolutely nothing of value' and not challenged that, even once, (further, they only want to challenge me for referencing it!) seems to me immeasurably sad.

Hinty

The fact that so many posters have read a post that said 'immigration has brought ordinary people absolutely nothing of value' and not challenged that, even once, (further, they only want to challenge me for referencing it!) seems to me immeasurably sad.

I went there obliquely:
When you complain about communities being not what they were because of immigration you are basically saying people shouldnt marry non-Brits cause that makes families not what they were. Which is sad.

But then I suppose because I married a black immigrant that makes me a non-ordinary person. In fact, I think the argument seems to be, if you are in favour of immigration, by default you are a non-ordinary person.

Can you tell me if that new bloke at work really fancies me, or have you put your crystal ball away?

It's horrible isn't it, Scottish. Shows no understanding of the contributions of immigrants over hundreds of years to this country, and certainly shows no respect for their families, friends and descendants.

Ordinary people, my arse.

I doubt he fancies you, Crackednips.

Unless he's some kind of freaky UKIP type.

40,000 left I believe since the ref. Result!

If that's true then yes, that is a result. I did vote Remain in the referendum, but after having months to think about it, I'm actually really glad we're leaving now.

It's not racist to want controlled borders. It's not racist to not want oversubscribed schools, full GP and dentist practices etc. It's not racist to want the government to help the people born in its country before extending a hand to others.

It just makes sense.

Read through my comments- I haven't said it was.

Thank you.

You're not welcome.

The rest of that post wasn't aimed at you specifically, but rather a general post.

Sorry I thought you were increasingly middle aged when in fact it's I who is increasingly middle aged.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm late twenties, not that that's at all relevant here.

I've changed my view on immigration after moving to a poor area on the outskirts of London...

Free movement of people in the EU worked when it was French academics coming to the UK and British technology experts going to Finland but after the Eastern European countries joined, it has been way too one-way. We don't have low skilled Brits moving to Romanian villages... My area has a lot of Eastern European families where one or both parents work in a factory and there's no way their taxes are covering the cost of their three children going to school and the whole family using health services. And that's just the economic argument.

It's horrible isn't it, Scottish. Shows no understanding of the contributions of immigrants over hundreds of years to this country, and certainly shows no respect for their families, friends and descendants.

Well that's balls for a start. I can certainly appreciate the contribution of immigrants at certain points in history without having to feel that the last 20 years of migration was positive. For example the Irish and Caribbean citizens who made up much of the force who built our infrastructure and staffed our hospitals post war when upwardly mobile British people genuinely were unwilling to do those jobs. I appreciate the contribution of highly skilled workers in IT, Medici e and engineering.

But I don't think migrants necessarily make a valuable contribution if they came at a time when there were plenty of people who were able to do the jobs available, but couldn't because of lack of access to training, or because the wages were forced so low and housing costs so high they couldn't afford to take them as benefits offered a better deal, or they just become excess labour forcing down wages as in for example the IT and construction industries did. Things like limits on the number of doctors we could train didn't help either. As someone already here could have done the job or done it for a fairer price the contribution is nullified and only the negatives remain. Acknowledging that some migration is positive doesn't mean you have to think all migration is positive. And I suspect that poster is largely right. If mass migration hadn't happened most ordinary people would feel little material negatives in comparison to those we experience when it has happened. We'd probably have better, cheaper housing and higher average wages for a start.

I don't think being a migrant necessarily deserves automatic respect either. There's usually a self serving motive especially in terms of money and nobody is moving here for free to nobly save the British poor. My OH for example emigrated here because the raves and MDMA were better in London. The daft sod.

Least you got me name right this time... BTW you forgot - tax rises, recession, spending cuts, the general end of political civilisation and ww3 ... Even the Gov' of the Bank of England, admits he 's“quietly optimistic” about Brexit.

But keep up the doom mongering if it helps you cope with your grief

Dot out of interest, how do they manage to feed and house 3 children on factory workers wages in London?

"No acknowledgement of the failure of government to spend on public services? No recognition that services are in decline regardless of who lives in certain places"

Scottishdiem I am no poster girl for Tory domestic policy, but how can any government adequately deliver services to its population when there is entirely free movement from
nearly 30 countries? It's impossible to know how many immigrants, of the potentially millions entitled to come, will arrive or what services they require. We don't check the number of kids of each migrant worker or their health conditions or housing needs. If services are overwhelmed in a particular area, we still can't limit the numbers even where health or education provision is already suffering. Even where new arrivals are not responsible (or not wholly responsible) for the poor services, there is a perception that they are. No wonder people voted leave.

I think you miss my point about EU vs non-EU immigration. Yes, we have always been able to control non-EU immigration (and I suspect we have not always done so effectively). There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to control immigration from within the EU either. The fact that sufficient infrastructure does not exist for those people wishing to come here should be reason enough.

Large parts of the South East have changed beyond recognition in the past few years. Again, it's reasonable for people to worry and to wonder when (and how) it will stop.

"I'm sure many UKIP voters in white working class areas are keen to get up at 4am every day to pick lettuces or cockles for less than the minimum wage."

NOBODY should be keen to work for less than the minimum wage. End of.

And I have just been called a terrible person!

histiny I wasn't calling you a terrible person. I was trying to make a point about how people often twist what others say so that they can attack them for saying something they didn't say. I was attempting to illustrate the futility of this as a line of argument.

I did apologise upthread, and said that I may have misunderstood your post which prompted mine. Can I say again, I don't think you are a terrible person.

I stick by my point that people use this tactic far too often on MN and elsewhere (attacking people for something they didn't say) but should not have made it in response to your post which I thought was doing this, but wasn't.

JustAnotherPoster00 Irrelevant. She can think and do what she likes

Oh the hypocrisy defence, fair enough then

Go to any research university in Britain and look at the number of immigrants. They contribute massively.