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To be ashamed of Theresa May's slant on immigration

199 replies

thinkiamgoingcrazy · 30/05/2017 06:16

No mention by her last night of the many positives. Or the net contribution that immigration makes to the coffers. Just a focus on bringing those numbers down because "that's what people want" and "for lots of reasons".

(Yes there have been issues in some places that have seen a huge increase in incomers, and where there has been a large downward pressure on wages. I am not saying nothing has to be done, but the first call IMO, should have been better investment in those areas and better monitoring and policing of unscrupulous employment practices.)

Instead, and since the Tory conference last year, the language that is being used is unfriendly, divisive and excluding. Also some of the policies that are being planned.

I think that it would benefit our country more, as well as the many contributing and hard working people from other countries who live and bring up their families here, if the rhetoric were more welcoming and inclusive. Not only that but people that we need are either leaving or not coming here. IMO that's embarrassing and shameful. How sad that numbers will go down / have been going down, because our brand is now inward looking and closed Sad. I really don't think that this makes economic, political or social sense.

OP posts:
SleightOfHand · 30/05/2017 15:41

Joe I'm a low paid worker as well. The pay will stay low too with a glut of people fighting for the jobs.

mimishimmi · 30/05/2017 23:50

Sleight - what makes you think that wages would automatically rise if there were not immigrants to compete with? More likely there would just be less jobs.

user1471545174 · 31/05/2017 00:04

I think YoungGirlGrowingOld has won the thread. Good to see cogent reasoning.

SleightOfHand · 31/05/2017 01:00

User I agree, there's been no comment from the naysayers though, funny that.
mimi Supply and demand.

mimishimmi · 31/05/2017 01:13

Sleight - doesn't work like that. With less immigration demand will just be less.

SleightOfHand · 31/05/2017 01:28

Less low paid jobs, where?

scottishdiem · 31/05/2017 01:37

I am Scottish (you can tell by the name). I made the mistake of falling in love and marrying a black Zimbabwean. Was allowed to stay for a while but that wasnt extended. Thanks to Theresa May and the people who support her hatred and xenophobia of non Brits we now live in Dublin. We were told to go to Zimbabwe. Being white British there isnt particularly safe to be honest. But I married the wrong person so my fault in terms of government policy and Daily Mail appeasement. When you complain about communities being not what they were because of immigration you are basically saying people shouldnt marry non-Brits cause that makes families not what they were. Which is sad.

DP has 1 undergraduate degree, 2 post graduate degrees and professional membership of thee accounting bodies. And earns a lot more than I do now. So not exactly one of your fabled Daily Mail alleged drains on society.

My dad has dementia but I cant be at home to look after him. Hatred of immigrants breaks up families. Still, makes you proud to be British, doesnt it?

scottishdiem · 31/05/2017 02:01

OK User and Slightofhand. I will bite:

"I have been a migrant from the U.K. to a non-EU country and it's a completely different board game. No recourse to public funds or benefits, no healthcare and you get deported if made redundant or sacked."

In Ireland now and even as an EU immigrant I am not entitled to anything. I am especially not entitled to anything because my non-EU spouse can only be with me for three months and I need a job after that. If I didnt have a job DP would be asked to leave. No NHS in Ireland either. And, despite the Daily Mail hate, EU citizens cant just come to claim benefits (its odd really, they come to claim benefits and steal peoples jobs - how does that work?).

"Break the law and your visa is cancelled."
Same in UK.

"Consequently, the population in my adopted country was very pro-immigration because they knew that it only added to their economy."

The reverence that the Rivers of Blood speech is held kind of hints that even when UK immigration was about economics, there was a very high degree of hate.

"They also knew that only highly qualified people needed to fulfil roles got in."
Yet immigration in the UK is now about every person. See my highly qualified spouse.

Many of those things of which people are most proud in this country - social welfare and the NHS, for example - increase the attractiveness of the U.K. to lower-skilled/paid migrants.

Indeed. But the fact we speak English is also a solid attraction. We also have employment legislation that prevents wide scale exploitation. We also have a solid economy where there are jobs for those who want to work hard and dont feel that jobs are below them. And entitlements are not universal nor are they automatic cause somewhere is here.

"I am from a white working class background and tbh if the inability to get a school place for your kid or a GP appointment coincides with an influx of new arrivals, it's not hard to see why many people are a bit pissed off."

And where does this happen? Where is the planning and public spending so overrun with immigrants? No acknowledgement of the failure of government to spend on public services? No recognition that services are in decline regardless of who lives in certain places.

"Magnanimity is easier when you are in (say) the West coast of Scotland looking out over countryside than when watching all the green space in your town be concreted for housing estates."

Plenty of house estates being built in Scotland. Strangly, most of them are for Scots. No new towns are being built to house immigrants. We, as a nation, have a growing population that isnt based on influxes of people coming off boats every other day.

"It's also easier when you can afford to insulate yourself from the less desirable effects of population increases (private education, skilled work so less wage deflation, buying in a "nice" area, private healthcare etc). I suspect many MN'ers fall into this category."

Perhaps but in Scotland I lived in a housing estate in a former mining village. In Dublin were are, at the moment, in a glorified bedsit. We arent insulated from much. Oh, and wage delflation isnt a thing according to academics but that is sectorial wide. I suppose costs have changed for some. E.g. Why do you want the single parent to go back to paying stunningly high call out charges for a plumber? That stopped for me when EU plumbers at least came and looked before deciding what to bill me. So who gets your sympathy - the plumber or the lone parent?

"FWIW DH is a non-white,non-EU immigrant who immigrated to the U.K. on a highly skilled migrant programme. He has been subjected to more checks because he is non-EU e.g. regular English tests, even though he was educated at a British school overseas, in English. Despite working for the NHS he could not stay here or claim benefits for many years even though he was a HR taxpayer. His EC colleagues - many of whom have faltering English - are not tested because EU law does not allow this."

My DP is the same for a lot of that. Mind you, DP has also spent a considerable amount of time correcting the written English in work reports, written by people who were born and educated here.

"He voted leave (!) because he thinks the UK should be free to choose the workers it needs from anywhere rather than be forced to take all-comers from within the EU. I find it quite hard to argue with that."

The UK was always free to choose. France or Germany or Poland did not tell the UK how many people it could take from India or Pakistan. That is a really odd argument.

My DP would have voted to stay. Because people like Farage stood in front of posters that echoed Nazi propaganda and made race baiting claims about Turkey. Being a fellow traveller with racists and xenophobes was not something that was appealing. I find it quite hard to argue with that.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 31/05/2017 02:16

Not going to change my mind about voting Tory and I'm going to work now, so end of conversation.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-worshipping-pastor-agu-irukwu-campaigned-against-gay-equality-jesus-house-a7763996.html

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 31/05/2017 02:22

JustAnotherPoster00 Irrelevant. She can think and do what she likes as long as she doesn't ban same sex marriage, which she won't.

Piratesandpants · 31/05/2017 06:47

Interesting thread. I think for me one issue is that all governments in the past 20 years have failed to communicate effectively about all aspects of immigration - policies, numbers, benefits experienced, tax, welfare benefits etc.

WrongTrouser · 31/05/2017 07:51

My dad has dementia but I cant be at home to look after him. Hatred of immigrants breaks up families. Still, makes you proud to be British, doesnt it?

Not wanting open borders and uncontrolled immigration is not hatred of immigrants Hmm

Increasinglymiddleaged · 31/05/2017 08:04

OP YABU.

What I find embarrassing is the idea that the EU is some kind of liberal organisation when in fact it prioritises white people for migration around Europe. That to me seems quite racist as a principle. Furthermore nobody seems to give a shiny shite about the poorer parts of Europe losing significant numbers of their young people and the effect on them (and the whole of the EU in the long term)

It is simplistic to assume that just because there have been positives from immigration that if net continued at the level it is that it will continue to be positive forever more.

In terms of the NHS we need to train British people for the roles rather than stealing HCPs from developing countries because the 'public purse can't afford it' Hmm. But the Philipines can afford to lose them apparently......

Out of interest OP are you advocating that it would be a good idea to allow unrestricted immigration from the whole world or do you agree with the principle that we need to control it?

Crackednips · 31/05/2017 08:22

The Tories don't think in those terms, only ideology As opposed to the entirely pragmatic, non-ideological left?

I think the majority of people want an immigration that's controlled and selective. We should be taking in the Yazidi people and other Christian minorities that are currently going through genocide in the ME. I'd like to see an end, or at least a drastic reduction of Muslim immigrants brought into this country.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 31/05/2017 08:27

*People who benefit from immigration:

  • Immigrants
  • Business / corporations
  • The City / financial institutions
People who don't benefit from immigration:
  • Everyone else
Immigration has brought ordinary people absolutely nothing of value and the extra tiny percentage on GDP has come at great cost.*

You poor, poor thing. How you "ordinary people" must have suffered over hundreds of years from migrants who bring you absolutely nothing of value.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 31/05/2017 08:30

I'd like to see an end, or at least a drastic reduction of Muslim immigrants brought into this country.

An end to the Muslim immigrants brought into this country?

I bet you're not racist either. Grin

WrongTrouser · 31/05/2017 08:47

I do love it when posters twist what other posters have said so they can attack what the other poster didn't say.

histiny Your suggestion that everyone born on a Tuesday should be deported is outrageous and clearly shows you to be a terrible person.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 31/05/2017 08:52

histiny Your suggestion that everyone born on a Tuesday should be deported is outrageous and clearly shows you to be a terrible person

I don't know what on earth you are talking about!?!!

sashh · 31/05/2017 08:53

We should have 'local' immigration, what I mean is immigration to specific areas. At the moment immigration is mainly to cities or for things like potato picking.

Last year (or may be a couple of years before) there was an Australian immigrant living on a Scottish island when her visa ran out. The local people wanted her to stay, her son has only been educated in Gaelic so far but because of caps and issues with visas she was struggling to stay.

There wasn't a local able to do the job her losing her visa was a loss to the community.

Places should be able to offer visas to a specific area.

I agree there should be a better system for seasonal workers, some areas do need them whether for tourism or for crop picking.

Increasinglymiddleaged · 31/05/2017 08:58

histiny she is referring to the need to label people racist because they have different views to you.

Do you accept that immigration needs to be controlled somehow or are you in favour of an absolute global free for all?

Increasinglymiddleaged · 31/05/2017 08:59

The issue is Sashh that how would you ensure they didn't just move?

Crackednips · 31/05/2017 09:01

she is referring to the need to label people racist because they have different views to you

Precisely

Crumbs1 · 31/05/2017 09:02

I've benefitted enormously from immigrants in recent years. My hospital consultants, lots of nurses and allied health professionals are from overseas. My dentist is foreign. Our schools have immigrant teachers, our care homes have immigrant careers, our taxis are driven by immigrant drivers, our fruit is picked by immigrant workers. Many are doing the jobs those complaining about immigration won't do.
In medicine it's almost impossible to recruit to some jobs because of a shortage of doctors. GPs are an endangered species as they are treated so badly. Would we rather people died?
The idea that immigration is to blame for the failings of government is just ridiculous- it's being used as a scapegoat to cover up poor outcomes from Tory ideologies.
If we reduce the number of immigrants allowed to enter then the perhaps the unemployed should be forced to take those unfilled jobs? I'm sure many UKIP voters in white working class areas are keen to get up at 4am every day to pick lettuces or cockles for less than the minimum wage. I'm sure there'll be a long queue of people waiting to stand all day, soaked through, with freezing and blistered hands to clean my car for a pittance.

The Victorian times were good eh?

makeourfuture · 31/05/2017 09:04

How does she know the electorate want less than 100000 immigrants?

Somebody though "Tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands" sounded good. Some PR meeting somewhere.

WrongTrouser · 31/05/2017 09:04

histiny I may be barking up the wrong tree. I read your post as trying to suggest the poster you quoted was talking about Muslim immigrants already in this country, rather than future immigration as they obvs were.

I do see it a lot on these threads. Person says x. Other person says, well it's outrageous to suggest y. Original poster is expected to defend self against accusation of saying or believing y, which they never said.

But I may have misinterpreted your post in which case, apologies.

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