To think UKIP have just saved themselves from extinction?

[Killdora]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40039616

Let's face it, after brexit they were going the way of the dodo.

By throwing themselves into the often politely ignored issues around community integration and extremism I think they will be stealing a big chunk of the Tory vote again.

Especially the removal of passports from anyone leaving the country to fight for ISIS.

If that had been in place earlier then the Manchester murderer wouldn't have been able to enter the country.

[SemiNormal]

UKIP are desperate -and so are a lot of British people who feel strongly that none of the main parties represent them when it comes to certain issues. UKIP are the only way for some people to feel heard. Personally I think UKIP is a shambles of a party since Nigel Farage left (and was shakey even before) but they DO speak for a large number of people in Britain.

[Killdora]

I'm still trying to get over the fact that there are people on mn arguing that a man with strong suspected links to terroirism

and had visited a hotbed for extremism and training

and blew up up children not a few days ago.

Should absolutely have had the right to re-enter the country.

But I'm the thick batshit one.

[ExplodedCloud]

nancy no it doesn't.
His parents may we have sought asylum here from Ghadaffi's Libya. Presumably they took British Citizenship (as they would have been effectively stateless) when they qualified. He was therefore born in Britain to holders of British Ciitizenship.

[surferjet]

Unfortunately we aren't ever allowed to talk about this stuff otherwise we are aligned with the UKIP douchebags

Yes. That's the problem.
We're not even allowed to get angry.
We have to remain calm despite the horror of it all - we have to carry on as if getting blown to pieces at a pop concert is 'just part of life'. There was some dick on the radio yesterday saying more people are killed getting out of their bath than they are in terrorist attacks, oh ok, that's fine then, let's just forget about it - hold hands, light candles, 'come together as love conquers all' - & then go on our merry way.
until the next time 22 innocent people are blown to pieces.

[maddening]

Why - do people going to fight for so called is no declare this as they leave the country?

[BarbarianMum]

[Killdora]

BarbarianMum no, not exactly.

But they are offering the closest to it. I'll take that for now.

As I said I just want the pressure put on the Tory's to mould their own policies along these lines.

[Foxysoxy01]

"But I'm the thick batshit one"

Indeed.

[Boynamedsue]

It's logistics though, it's all very well saying he shouldn't be allowed back in but if you can't actually do it what's the point? It's an empty promise that means absolutely nothing

[intheknickersoftime]

He was known to intelligence services. Do you not think that maybe this present government could have you know, pre empted this. Do you not realise that schools have a legal obligation to report suspected radicalisation. This already happens. So instead of saying UKIP is the answer, what is the question? To me it is why didn't intelligence services act on what they already knew? You haven't once suggested that. Because you are so willing to suggest that anyone who is trying to say hey, let's not become hateful towards all Muslims is somekind of woolly lefty who wants to open the borders. And that's the problem I have with ukippers in general.

[Killdora]

Witty comeback.

[Petronius16]

A few weeks ago eight UK Sikh men were jailed for passport offences. Their scam involved arranging for seven Sikhs from India being met in Paris by one of the gang and given the other seven passports from the UK group. All were able to travel through passport control in Paris and at St Pancras, using passports that were not their own.

Once sentence was passed it was revealed that one of them had a received a five year jail sentence in 2011 for a similar offence.

We're not very good at controlling our borders. Border Control admitted that thousands had come in by that route but had no idea how many.

UKIP would be just as bad.

[Fishfingersandwich9]

I'm confused, if they are going to refuse re-entry to British passport holders who travel to areas known to harbour extremists (e.g. Libya) then effectively we are banning everyone from travelling to a fair number of countries? Isn't that a massive breach of our freedom? I don't want to government telling me which countries I can and cannot travel to!

[intheknickersoftime]

I'm not trying to be funny or witty.

[ToastDemon]

Yes how does it work if you've been on holiday to Tunisia then I wonder?

[Killdora]

I'm sorry, please do point out where I said anyone who doesn't hate muslims is a lovey lefty.

If I didn't think I'd get slated to heaven I'd point out my nephew is a Muslim (but that would be the equivalent of 'my best friend is black' so I'll avoid it )

Islam and all muslims are not the equivalent of the radical Islam, hate preaching and isolationist muslims I'm concerned about that aren't interpreting.

The people who look down and hate western culture and freedoms instead of accepting it whilst still retaining their own culture, as the vast majority of muslims in this country do.

[Foxysoxy01]

"Yes how does it work if you've been on holiday to Tunisia then I wonder?"


It doesn't that's the whole point about UKIP and their policies.

Nothing they say has any sense or could be implemented in anyway!

[scatterolight]

This canard that being born in a country makes you of that country has just got to die. No-one challenges it yet everyone knows it to be nonsense. To illustrate what nonsense it is how do we feel about the following statements....

-Eddie Izzard is Yemeni
-Joanna Lumley is Indian.
-Cliff Richard is also Indian.
-Richard Dawkins is Kenyan.

Not only was Salman Abedi Libyan by ancestral heritage, but he was Libyan in his religion, his culture, his moral norms, his friends, his concerns, his actions.

And yes his being here and his blowing himself up has everything to do with mass immigration. Immigration so uncontrolled that it has allowed people to be born in this country and yet live a life rooted in a completely different country. Physically here, mentally and spiritually elsewhere. It is an untenable situation.

[Killdora]

No I don't think just travelling to a different Muslim country is enough to be refused re-entry.

I think that coupled with our intelligence services strong suspicions that you are otherwise linked to hate preaching, extremism and terrorism should be enough yes.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

you're choosing to ignore the fact he was born and bred in this country and his own family had reported him to the police

While the first part of that's true, I'm wondering about the second ... just out of interest, does anyone know if the thing about his family reporting him (or others in the community, come to that) is provably so?

It's just that, given the number of the family who've apparently been arrested, it's hard not to wonder how likely this would be - though it could have been a more distant relative, perhaps?

[intheknickersoftime]

I've read your last sentence three times Kildora and I still don't get understand it.

[BaronessEllaSaturday]

my objection to the idea is because he is our problem. He was born and raised in this country so as a country it is our responsibility.

We didn't do all we could have done in respect of intelligence and surveillance so the question really is why not.

[Killdora]

Which one intheknickersoftime, I'll be glad to help clarify.

[intheknickersoftime]

The one that starts the people who look down

[FlyingElbows]

Killdora, are you aware that there are people in this country, with serious links to Islamic extremism, who are not allowed to leave? They have their passports removed to prevent them from leaving this country to travel to the likes of Syria. Would perhaps an extension of that policy be better than banning anyone who visits a "trouble" country from re-entering? As others have already asked, where do you propose the then stateless citizens are placed?