To expect that the school contact us after a crazed kid attacked ours and sent him home fearing that he might be concussed?

[user1467099964]

A bit of background. I have long suspected my child may have ASD. He is very intelligent but not very streetwise and everywhere he goes he seems to get picked on. We had it all through primary too and there was a lot of victim blaming. The primary was originally outstanding and in a small quiet village; we thought it would be good but they were only interested if everything was going well, they didn’t have a clue with SEN and hardly had any pupils with SEN and there were a lot of behavioural issues.
The new school is in quite a deprived area and I was a bit worried about this but thought because of this it would have more SEN pupils (it does) and therefore more funding so be able to handle these pupils and possibly help mine more (be more understanding?). However, my son seems to be being attacked nearly every day! He has been trying so hard to defend himself and doesn’t want to snitch but I have had to e-mail his tutor on two occasions about separate incidents that were particularly bad and the tutor reassured us after the first incident and it died down a bit with that child for a while, but when it happened again, he never replied to my e-mail!
Now there is this unprovoked incident with another child and we haven’t heard from the school. We called them and they said they would get back to us but they did not.
I’m worried as I don’t know if he will be safe tomorrow-he has most classes with this child!
Apart from this he loves school and is doing very well academically. This school acknowledges that he is highly capable and are encouraging him. Such a difference to the last one where he was written off and ignored. He is so happy that he tries even harder for these teachers.
So what should we do? I want to take him out but wonder if it’s just the same in all schools. Are all secondary schools like this? Does he just need to learn to be tougher? He hates hurting people.
Thanks for reading; any advice would be greatly received.

Also after half term everything went back to normal with the other kid and he started pushing, grabbing and generally being annoying to everyone as well as DS. Is it worth reporting as DS is leaving? I know the school will think it is petty.
Definitely report it.

I'd also consider moving him sooner.. IMO it's good to have a couple of weeks at the new school before the summer hols, so it isn't such a huge jump in September.

Oh dear - it think that down to shitty behaviour at both schools they have battered you into down playing this . It's disgusting and appaling and no child should be subjected to this . So sorry for you OP and hope you get some boost and good advice here

user1467099964 of course YANBU. I am so sorry this has happened and your child has been part of daily attacks.

I am still reading through your posts so sorry if I say something you later answer!

If you believe he has Aspergers or something like ASD I would be tempted to explore this with P/CAMHS because they may be able to offer some help.

You are not overreacting at all.

Your opening post mentions "they didn’t have a clue with SEN and hardly had any pupils with SEN and there were a lot of behavioral issues."

Which suggests to me they absolutely did have children with special educational needs but did not recognize it. I think the UK statistic is one in five, or similar, so no idea why your area would be different.

My dd's primary school failed her massively. Wish I had realized the full extent as the time and I would have made more of a fuss!

Please do not think of it as "DS seems to attract bullies like a magnet." Because eventually you may come to think of it as somehow his fault. Bullies will attack any child they feel like, they are evil shits. It has nothing to do with your son.

My dd is lucky in that she had not been bullied but she has educational special needs, we think on the spectrum and I know of kids not at all educationally special needs horribly bullied at my dd’s old school. Any child can be a target for bullies.

User14...964
We moved him to the next nearest Catholic school as my other son had gone there. I had decided to send my son to a different school - worst decision on my part.....but it was the best move. I was honest with the school why we were moving etc. They tried to change my mind but I was determined to do what was best for my son. This is why I stand up to these bullies and their parents, even if I do get a reprimand/telling off.
It is the one moment when I can say to parents...I know and understand what you are going through!
Incidentally, when he was in Year 11 he and the bully were friends and even went to prom with their girlfriends together! The boy in question had a torrid home life and I felt sorry for him. My son forgave him.

Again I hope you speak to HOY and make your feelings known and that you will vote with your feet! xxxx

PaulDacresFeministConscience I love this quote…
"What do you call the school nerd when they grow up? Boss".

OP I agree with ASauvingnonADay

“Definitely report it.”

I also agree “I'd also consider moving him sooner.. IMO it's good to have a couple of weeks at the new school before the summer hols, so it isn't such a huge jump in September.”

user1467099964 I am so sorry you and your son have been through this, it is awful. You can still complain to Ofsted when your son has left the school, complain about how things were handled. I am not sure what it will do but I would do it.

Please also consult your child and get them on board with how to handle it. Empower them. Because bullying disempowers, I am sure you know that.

Maybe enrol them in Taekwando or other martial art class that teaches respect and self defence. Just check first none of the bullies are in the class. Go further afield for the class if necessary. I do Takewando and it is fabulous. I am an out of weight fat middle aged woman and I can do it. So it has to be pretty amazing!

sorry, I hate the word fat, I meant....out of shape, overweight! middle-aged woman!

Thank you for all the replies and wonderful advice it really is keeping us going!

I will e-mail the HOY again just to let her know that I am going to speak to the head (via e-mail!).

I am talking all this through with DS so he knows what is going on. He is scared about moving schools and leaving his friends. I don't think he really knows what he wants. He said he just wishes this child would leave him alone and that there was more discipline in the school.
I can't see any of that happening sadly.

We also have a problem in that the other schools in the area don't perform well (results and ofsted). This was the best!! I know league tables and ofsted are not the only thing but how on earth do you tell if a school is a good fit? I don't really care about results I just want a more caring place than the one he's at, where he will be happy.

We are looking around a tiny private school next week (gulp!)-not perfect but cheaper than any other I have found i.e. the only one we can manage to scrape to afford! I don't hold out much hope as I will expect too much if I am paying and if it is (relatively) cheap I guess it won't be that good.

We are considering moving to an area with a "better" school but it is a big gamble, what if he still doesn't get in to the (over subscribed) good school?

Its looking like I may have to HE temporarily which DH is really not keen on :(

ItalianDS does a martial art (enrolled after the trouble at his primary school ) and you are right-it has helped his self-confidence, I can't imagine what state he would be in if he didn't do it but he really doesn't know what to do about this child as he is terrified of hurting someone in defence and getting in to trouble!
Incidentally DS also doesn't think it worth trying to hit him hard to stop him in the future as he says this child is incapable of learning.

It really should be the school who sort this out. They are letting both children down-I thought the school would have something planned for the aggressive child when he arrived as surely he must have been like this in his previous primary!

OP "... he really doesn't know what to do about this child as he is terrified of hurting someone in defence and getting in to trouble!
Incidentally DS also doesn't think it worth trying to hit him hard to stop him in the future as he says this child is incapable of learning."

I wonder if you and ds could meet with HOY or Head and ds could ask that question. "What am I meant to do when that boy attacks me, or jostles me, or is violent towards me?"

I would ask if you can record the answer.

I feel very sorry your son has to move school. Before you tell them he is going can you ask them what the plan, the detailed plan is for keeping him safe. How does it match with what they say in their anti bullying policy? How does it fit with the government guidelines?

www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school/the-law

I wonder if your son's martial arts teacher could advise on non-violent ways to block punches or defend oneself.

I do wonder what the teacher, HOY and Head would do if attacked in a public place?

PS would you be willing to go to your local MP? It seems very wrong your son must leave his school because of one bully and a school incapable of keeping him safe. OP you need some influential friends!

Thanks italian a great idea. I will ask the sensei if they can teach DS some blocking techniques for this type of attack.
I have contacted School again-HOY/Head (not any further up the chain yet -let me build up to being brave!) and asked about all things that have been mentioned on this thread.
It is shocking that the school just keeps hiding behind its layers of organisation and hoping we will go away.
Part of me thinks there is nothing to lose and at least it will show my son that we believe that the way they have treated him is wrong. It is also good practice for not being walked over in the future!
Thank you to everyone who has replied-you are giving me the courage to do this!

You know, thinking about it the school didn't reply to the message I sent last week asking about what they were going to do in the future to keep DS safe (I sent it before the other child came back).

They haven't replied yet to yesterdays e-mail (yes it may be too early)
and the tutor still hasn't asked if DS is ok!-surely he would have heard through the grapevine even if he wasn't officially told?

Is it possible that I will receive no contact whatsoever even if it is escalated to the Head? Has any one had experience where all their e-mails/phone calls are ignored? what happens in this case? Do they just blank us until we get the LEA involved and they deal with it instead? It is quite bizarre surely I can't be the only parent treated like this?
This has to be a failing school if they won't even communicate with us!
I feel like the only way they will contact us is if we refuse to send DS in. Actually could I do that and then contact the LEA, explaining that the school refuse to assure us that DS will be safe?

user1467099964 it sounds like you are wanting to fight this but you also mentioned moving ds.

I wonder what would be better for him?

The thing that worries me if he stays is his boy will either seriously injure him, and what will the school do then, continue to turn a blind eye until you sue them? And that this appalling behaviour will damage his self esteem.

However, if you move him you have outlined two or three options, is that right? That he will go to a school that is not as academically good and will perhaps damage his academic and work experiences.
Or you may pay for him to go to a private school which may be financially very difficult for you, or less difficult but maybe less academically good.

Is that correct?

The issue with all these options is that your son may be bullied in another school, and that he may not make friends or such good friends as he has made here.

I think before you made a final decision I would approach an anti bullying charity and get advice.

I think you really need to kick upa stink with school. How long, in their own guidelines, does it say that it should normally take them to answer emails and correspondence. It may say on the website or you may need to call the office and ask. If they say they do not know, ask them to find out.

When they find out say what do you do when a message is IGNORED for days, or weeks?

I would personally print out all your emails and send them recorded delivery to the school and ask for a meeting with the head and/or head of year.

I would also speak to your local MP and look into what, if anything, Ofsted can do.

Document every single cut and bruise and consider sending photos.

Lastly, I hate the idea that it is wrong for kids to fight back. It is only wrong if this puts them in greater danger or the force is dsipraportionare and the other child is seriously injured - IMHO.

Other than that I would say it is not fighting back it is called in English self defense. I would look at the law and see what the law says about self defense. Primarily the best defence is to run away, and I would always do this and advise others to do it. But if cornered I would defend myself with anything I could find.

I am not advising you to tell your son to do this, I have no idea if it could get him into trouble or if he could be one of those poor unfortunate people who seriously injures someone while defending themselves.

But in your shoes I would want to get in writing or on tape what your son should do on the school premises if being attached by this child.

Please take all my advice with a pinch of salt! I am angry person, I am hugely anti bullying (despite not really being bullied myself at school or at work ever!)

If the school cannot keep your son safe then the head and staff involved should really be looking for another job, or speaking to their union about better training/legislation etc.

Have you seen the Bullying UK website?

www.bullying.co.uk/bullying-at-school/moving-school-if-you-are-being-bullied/

...if being attacked by this child.

"I am angry person" actually I have quite a sunny disposition but I am angry on behalf of you and your son.

If they haven't replied send an email stating that you would like a response pbefore x time or you will be contacting the board of governors and/or LEA.

It is shocking that the school just keeps hiding behind its layers of organisation and hoping we will go away.

This is it exactly so you have to convince them that you will not go away. If you will probably move him anyway, you really have nothing to lose and everything to gain, by playing hardball. Obviously the best outcome would be for him to stay in a school where he is achieving, where he has friends and where he stays safe.

I also found that once I'd sorted out my initial problem with the paper trail etc, the head teacher treated me with utmost respect/friendliness the rest of the time. Far more so than was necessary. I think they respected my calm but relentless approach, realised I did have a point and that I had acted reasonably throughout. I had also asked them what they would do in my shoes and made it a bit more personal to them.

Hmm quite a lot to consider. I appreciate your points italian and do understand your anger because I am alternating between anger and despair myself. It is difficult. I am trying to be polite as I don't want to alienate them (in case DS changes his mind about leaving!) This School is better than the others-not great and only because the others are so bad! (on paper any way). It is the way they are handling this that unsettles me.
right that really is a wonderful outcome-that's what I really wish for but i do wonder, even if we were that lucky, if I could ever trust them now. I've lost a lot of respect for the school. I'm just so surprised that people with this level of responsibility can act so childishly!

I think OP anger (as long as it is rational as rightwhine brilliantly describes) then it can get things done, and can make you follow through to the logical conclusion - which may be to tell the school they appear to be saying they either cannot keep your son safe, or can't be bothered to or that they are hiding behind the paper!

But despair does nothing! It lets them get away with this, both the horrid boy, and the horrid school. Despair says treat me like crap I am not worth it. BUT you and your son are so worth it. You really are!

You do not need to be impolite at all. In fact be overly polite but not sarcastic. you could say "I am trying to see it from your point, can you see it from mine. You have 100s of children to keep safe, but I have just this one (at your school) and I really need to know he is safe. Is it too much to ask to know for sure he will not be attacked, jostled, physically abused while in your care?

That is not rude, it is normal!

" I've lost a lot of respect for the school. I'm just so surprised that people with this level of responsibility can act so childishly!"

Those are good sentiments. I would temper them a little but I might be tempted to say...

"I've lost a lot of respect for the school. Because I do not feel you respect me, and most of all you do not appear (please prove me wrong!) to respect my son."

"It has surprised me that people in this school, with this level of responsibility, can act in a way which seems irrational, not answering urgent emails, and sometimes dangerous, not protecting my child."

We had issues with bullying towards my DS ( ASD) from a particular child all through primary school... when he moved to secondary I spoke to them prior and they assured me it would be ok. Few weeks in and he was shoved around by some older kids - I was assured this was dealt with but there was a definite undertone of " kids will be kids" ( he's a small yr7, they were yr10) then a few months ago he was physically attacked by a kid in his year ( punched repeatedly and shoved over) - no injuries but after calling and emailing the school and 48hrs later getting no response I reported it to the police.

Funnily enough the school called me the next morning hastily to apologise

I would be asking for a direct meeting with the head to discuss your grievances and politely mentioning you are aware of the legal age of responsibility so perhaps in future you'll notify the police as the school aren't willing to assist. < apologies if you've done this I skimmed whilst dealing with DD)

That is interesting imnotaceleb. It's not just our School then! Sad it had to come to that for your DS for it to get sorted for you though.

I spoke to the police just to generally see what would happen, they were nice but said they would probably not get involved with the school. Maybe I should have tried anyway, they might have contacted the school i suppose. Just knowing the police had been involved might have had some influence over the school.

I had a reply from the HOY-who has been asked to reply on behalf of the head and anti-bullying coordinator also!
Unbelievably rude to just not bother replying to their own e-mails.
The usual stuff, although appeared to be concerned-can't do anything if don't see it/no -one reports it. Will speak again to offender...

The message sent via HOY from the anti-bullying coordinator was a churned out a general policy about how poor behaviour is dealt with in the School. It was very impersonal, not reassuring and quite rude.
Head sent no special messages at all!

I'm fully feeling that anger now italian!- trying to use it constructively though .

Imnotacelebgetmeouttahere I am so sorry your son experienced this. Clearly, the police are the way to go. If the police are called the school may have to take things seriously.

user1467099964 "I spoke to the police just to generally see what would happen, they were nice but said they would probably not get involved with the school. Maybe I should have tried anyway, they might have contacted the school i suppose. Just knowing the police had been involved might have had some influence over the school."

The thing is if you say to a group who are meant to do a job, but they are very overstretched "I was thinking of using your services for XYZ" Then it is possible for them to say "Well, we wouldn't be able to do much blah blah blah,"

But if you had reported it, or if something else happens, and you do report it, they will presumably have to follow their procedure. Which might be exactly what they told you, or might be a bit different.

If it happens again make sure you get photographic evidence and make it clear you want action taken, whatever that action is.

If you son says about being a grass etc (as I think you did mention his concerns before) the thing is if we buy into the idea we must not grass up abusers, where does it stop? It's not grassing anyone up, it's sticking up for himself. Yes, I am sure there could be risks of retaliation. But the 'retaliation' is happening anyway. And the danger to one;s self esteem of being taught that what happens to us doesn't really matter, that is a real concern.

"can't do anything if don't see it/no -one reports it. Will speak again to offender..."

You are reporting it, from your son, who is the target and witness!

Are they saying they do not believe your son? of course they are not because "Will speak again to offender..." They must know this child is attacking other kids. Maybe the school needs CCTV if they cannot trust lunchtime supervisors, Ts or teachers to know what is happening!

I want to say that you should please do tell the HOY the message they sent from the anti-bullying coordinator looked like it was a general policy about how poor behaviour is dealt with in the School. "It was very impersonal, not reassuring and quite rude" - give examples of how it felt rude to you.

But part of me thinks it would be better to say "The general policy in your letter sounds all well and good but does not address what has been happening to my son and how you will keep him safe. Can we talk about that because that is what interests me, my son's safety at school. Otherwise how can I send him into school everyday not knowing if the school can keep him safe."

"I will look forward to your reply."

(good on the anger!) XX

Italian I looked at the bullying website you linked to, thank you-it is very good, particularly about moving schools. The idea about CCTV is a good one to suggest as I really couldn’t think of anything they could do to provide supervision!

I am frustrated as the School seem to be treating this just as a bullying incident-referring my complaint back to HOY for instance.
I assumed that an attack like this should be the Head teachers’ responsibility to address? I’m not sure that it’s bullying? (perhaps the lead up to it was?) I think the ethos of the school is to blame. It’s handling of the incident is worrying for the future.

What I do think was bullying- the actions of the other children during the attack-standing/ watching /cheering and some even filming (footage was destroyed and offenders reprimanded thankfully) are not going to be addressed by the Anti-bullying coordinator. His second hand response pretty much says that the school educate the children on respect already..blah...blah... BUT it’s obviously not working!

I did draft a few replies including this and the other points made by posters on this thread (thank you again) but I feel really stuck now:-

DH believes that the School are actually doing something-speaking to the offender and that this means they believe DS. This is more than was done at primary. Therefore he wants me to leave it before we alienate them anymore. DH thinks that maybe moving School might not be the best thing for DS (as DS doesn’t know what to do himself) and as quite a few people have pointed out, the same problem may happen in another school.

imnotaceleb can I ask if you are happy with your DS's school now?
Like you we also spoke to the School prior to DS starting re the bully from primary. They also reassured us but still put the bully in some of his classes despite the recommendations from the primary!(thankfully though he hasn't bothered DS at all this year).

Who destroyed the footage? It was evidence!

Has the school addressed this wider behaviour of voyeurism in the pupils?

Your husband sound like he needs to be a bit more on your son's side. His approach sounds like he hasn't got the gumption for a fight.

I'd say when you feel sure the school can look after your child and not put him at risk, then you will have confidence in them. Before that they need to convince you they are prepared for next time this bullying child strikes. If they are convinced it will not happen again, what makes them think this is the case.

I think I would say something like "If my son is attacked again at school, I will consider involving the police. However, I would rather not have to do that, which is why I am trying to work with you now and trying to work out how you will help my son."

Maybe get the marital arts teacher to do a private self deference session with your son while you are there. How can your son use his voice. For example in Taekwando we shout "Back off" it sounds a bit like "Fuck off"!! But you could consider other things "Hey, cut it out." "Leave me alone (name of child)" etc. A loud commanding voice to get attention of any staff in vicinity.

EG...

"Skill #4. Use Your Voice
Most young people who are being hurtful to others on purpose don’t want to get caught. Yelling and speaking up loudly calls attention to a bullying problem or any kind of unsafe behavior. Suppose they are being threatened physically or dealing with another kid who pushes, shoves, trips, or hits. You can practice by pretending that you are about to act unsafely without actually doing anything hurtful.
Coach students to pull away and yell “NO! STOP! LEAVE! HELP!” really loudly. Coach them to yell “STOP! I don’t like that!” Coach them to look the person who is bullying in the eyes and speak in a firm voice with both hands in front of their body with palms facing outwards, like a wall. It this doesn’t work,, practice how to yell for help in a way that will call attention to the problem. . For example, “STOP! GET OUT OF MY WAY! HELP! GET THE TEACHER! __(name) IS BULLYING ME!” Remind students to leave and go to an adult to report what happened and get help as soon as possible."

www.kidpower.org/library/article/prevent-bullying/

I think in this context all systematic behaviour like this what happened to your son is a form of bullying. Some bullying is violent, some not.

I think a physical attack is both bullying and a physical attack. The difference is I would report it to the police as a physical attack as part of systematic bullying and in that sense the school is partially complicit in this because if it was a random attack on the street no one would have any warning.

At school a child is being systematically bullied and the attack comes as part of it.

It is not less than a random attack, it is more than a random attack, so all concerned should treat it at least as seriously as a random attack.

It's just that if the school knows it is happening and doesn't make a realistic attempt to stop it they are partly to blame, IMHO.