Nursery overfeeding 3yo

[yorkshapudding]

DD(3.5) has been identified as being "a little bit overweight" (the HV's words) and I am keen to address this before it becomes a real problem.

She goes to a Nursery attached to the local primary school 3 days a week. She also attends breakfast club on those days. This is unavoidable due to my working hours. At breakfast they are given a choice of toast, cereal or both. They help themselves so portions aren't limited. There is also toast, fruit and milk available for morning and afternoon snack, again they help themselves. DD loves toast, would eat it all day if we let her. Same goes for milk.

When the problem with her weight was picked up we told Nursery about it and the Manager dismissed it as "rubbish" and told me to "ignore the HV" as DD "looks perfectly fine. I could see her point as DD does not look like a 'fat' child to me either, but I explained that DH and I don't want to disregard HCP advice so asked them to limit DD's bread and dairy intake as recommended by HV. Despite assurances, this hasn't happened and DD is still having several slices of toast a day (usually there, one at breakfast and one at each snack, but has been up to five slices in a day!) plus regular milk drinks. I have explained to the Nursery that we are concerned about this and I am met with assurances that it won't happen again and they will do everything they can to support us, but nothing changes.

At home we are being very careful with portion sizes, DD eats healthy, home cooked meals, she rarely snacks between meals, she doesn't have sugary drinks or sweets. Things like cake and ice cream are reserved for special occasions (meals out, parties etc) and given in small amounts. But I'm worried all our efforts will be for nothing if she's allowed to gorge herself three days a week and it's starting to frustrate me.

AIBU to expect the Nursery to work with us on this? I know they're busy and I don't want to be 'that parent'- but I don't want DD to be overweight either. When I go to the dreaded HV weigh in and am told "hmmm, she's still a bit overweight" I feel like they must think I'm a terrible mother, but I can't do anymore than I'm already doing

It's ok for kids to know that too much good isn't good for them. There's a difference between making a child feel ashamed of their weight and instilling healthy eating habits.

Well said. A 3 year old is not going to develop an ED because her mum asks the nursery to cut back on toast FFS. Obesity is a much, much greater danger for her long-term health.

I wouldn't be able to stop myself over-eating if I had unlimited access to my favourite food all day. Why should we expect a 3 year old to have more self-control than an adult? She needs help to make healthy choices.

Is she actually hungry when she eats the toast? Or is it emotional eating?

My DS (12) could, can and sometimes does eat most of a loaf of bread and huge bowls of pasta when he's going through a growth spurt. His body instinctively recognises that he needs the extra carbs... and off he goes. I think I'd be worried if he was getting those carbs from crisps... but he's not, so the bread doesn't bother me - and never has. He's stick thin, constantly active, and eats healthily for the vast majority of the time (I suspect he buys a chocolate bar on the way home from school every now and then, but... eh).

You can't control what your daughter's nursery does, or doesn't do at their breakfast club. They're not going to want to single your child out amongst her peers, for one thing, and for another - how can you say "no" to a hungry child? How can you deny food to a child who is genuinely in need of its nutrients?

You can, however, control your own attitude towards food around your child. She will grow up in a world that is obsessed with how people look. Social media, television... all obsessed with being almost invisible and gaunt to the point of non-recognition. Please teach your daughter the skills she will need to shun this in the future by not succumbing to it yourself.

Healthy eating at home is fantastic. But limiting portions to a growing child...? Is not. As others have said, she may well drop the weight. She may not. But either way, she is still your daughter and you'll love her no matter how much she weighs, or what she looks like. She needs to be taught that, not how to diet before the age of 4.

Squish - I was wondering that. As I pressed "post", I remembered how my daughter used to eat when she was bored. We had to teach her how to eat only when/if she was hungry... and if she was bored, to find something to occupy her other than a sandwich. She was around the OP's daughter's age, too, if I remember rightly.

It does sound as if the nursery is feeding the children a lot of carb-based snacks, and I can understand why this is worrying you, @yorkshapudding.

I would expect them to offer fruit and veg as snacks, and alongside the other breakfast items - so the children had cereal and then fruit, or toast and then fruit, not two lots of carbs, then carrot sticks or cherry tomatoes as a snack later on.

Maybe your dd is hungrier at nursery, because of the different activity levels there - and obviously if she is hungry, there is nothing wrong with a snack - but it should be a healthy one. She's clearly happy to eat carrot sticks or fruit at home, or out and about with you, and there is no good reason why the nursery can't offer these things too.

I've not rtft but having worked in a nursery, I imagine 5 peices of toast are 5 quarters - so 1 and a bit slices of bread. In the nursery I worked, the cook cut toast into quarters and each child (2 plus) got 2 'peices' plus another 1/2 if they were still hungry. If they really are giving her 5 actual slices of bread toasted then that is ridiculous and unhealthy. Agree that you should feed children when hungry - but healthier/'boring' stuff like fruit/veg sticks and obviously say when enough is enough (we'd never have let a child have 2 bananas plus a pear and some grapes and an orange in one go for eg - if mainly because they'd make themselves sick). I think milk is a different matter though. Just my personal opinion but I wouldn't be limiting that as it's great in calcium. Also children are more active than adults. They need fat and carbs, so I don't think it a great idea limiting their carbs or putting them on low fat milk.

I said it's a slippery slope because it is and I stand by that.

To answer other posters I never disagreed about healthy eating in fact i'm all for it.

Shouldn't Ofsted be marking nurseries for the food that they provide to children?

or toast and then fruit, not two lots of carbs

What no-carb fruit are you talking about? Fruit is carbs!

*She will grow up in a world that is obsessed with how people look. Social media, television... all obsessed with being almost invisible and gaunt to the point of non-recognition. Please teach your daughter the skills she will need to shun this in the future by not succumbing to it yourself.

Healthy eating at home is fantastic. But limiting portions to a growing child...? Is not. As others have said, she may well drop the weight. She may not. But either way, she is still your daughter and you'll love her no matter how much she weighs, or what she looks like. She needs to be taught that, not how to diet before the age of 4.*

Limiting the portions of a growing child is recommended by HCP, who I trust, when that child is overweight. Once again, my daughter is not on a diet, I am simply giving her the recommended amounts for her age. There is a middle ground between putting your child on a diet and and allowing them to eat as much as they want, whenever they want.
And my daughter knows very well that she is loved, thank you very much I am concerned about her weight for health reasons not because of what she looks like.

How can you deny food to a child who is genuinely in need of its nutrients?

No one is suggesting that. But the OP's DD is overweight, so she is eating more nutrients than she needs.

The level of denial about obesity on this thread is staggering. I really would have expected MNetters to be better informed. Obesity is a public health emergency. It causes 1:20 cancers in the UK, heart disease and diabetes. And it's not just a problem in adulthood- as the World Health Organisation says:

Childhood obesity is associated with a higher chance of obesity, premature death and disability in adulthood. But in addition to increased future risks, obese children experience breathing difficulties, increased risk of fractures, hypertension, early markers of cardiovascular disease, insulin resistance and psychological effects

Most posters on this thread seem stuck in a pre-World War II mindset when large numbers of children were malnourished due to lack of food (as opposed to unhealthy food). This has not been a major problem in the UK since 1945 - whereas obesity is a huge and growing problem. Letting your DC be obese in childhood is setting them up for a lifetime of poor health and early death. That may sound dramatic but unfortunately it's the truth.

Thank you shiny, reading this thread has made me wonder if I'm going slightly mad. Some of the responses seem to be suggesting that I'm neurotic, controlling, even cruel for wanting my DC to be a healthy weight. I had assumed most parents would be concerned about their child being overweight but apparently to many it's a none issue

I'm willing to bet that the OP is serving sensible portions of protein and carbs, and plenty of fruit and veg, so her child is getting a healthy, balanced diet and isn't going hungry!

Most parents are unable to recognise that their DC are overweight - link here.

If this thread is anything to go by, even if they do recognise obesity, they think they shouldn't do anything about it.

Most overweight kids have overweight parents who are deep in denial and incredibly defensive. As a GP, I literally find it easier to ask someone if they're a heroin addict than tell them their DC are overweight.

These are the reasons why we have an obesity epidemic. All of us - parents, HCPs and schools/nurseries - are letting children down. Well done for doing the right thing, OP.

I just wanted to sympathise. I am in a similar position. I haven't been officially told my 3.5yo is overweight but according to the NHS calculator she is. She looks chunky but not fat per se. She eats 2 portions of dinner and pudding every day that she is at nursery. They have a help yourself approach and I have to admit I am yet to tackle this head on with them. You sound like you're doing a great job and I think getting your health visitor to write to them sounds like a really good idea.

I wouldn't constantly give toast for a snack, or limitless milk, overweight or not. They need water too to ensure they're hydrated not just drinking calories as thirsty. Does the nursery offer healthier snacks & water?

My daughter (2) has ff cows milk twice a day, as much as she wants, but only at those times (morning & after lunch nap). Otherwise it's water. She also loves toast for breakfast & has a sandwich for lunch on our busier/out & about days and as such I'd never give her bread/toast for a snack.

I agree they don't need to be on 'a diet' and there's no need to be afraid of fats, but also yes they do need a varied healthy diet. So op I'd get the nursery to stop toast snacks and ensure offering water not always milk, and leave the rest for now? I'd forget the overweight comment too and just focus on her being offered a varied diet of different colour foods.

Also toast can be chock full of salt. We use weight watchers bread which is lower in salt & sugar & not enormous slices. No other 'diet' food though!

And completely agree with this!

'I wouldn't be able to stop myself over-eating if I had unlimited access to my favourite food all day. Why should we expect a 3 year old to have more self-control than an adult? She needs help to make healthy choices.'

Thank you to those of you who have responded with empathy and constructive suggestions.

When I collected DD from Nursery today one of the staff cheerily informed me she had Spaghetti Bolognese and mashed potato for tea

I am going to speak with the HV and ask her advice about how to broach this again with Nursery and whether she would be willing to write to them/visit..although I'm not convinced they'll take it seriously to be honest.

I am now leaning towards looking for another Nursery for DD.

Good idea, she may have some constructive suggestions on how to approach it with them.
Once you've exhausted all avenues and if you've still got no where with them it may be for the best to look elsewhere. I know how daunting that feels (have had to do it myself before) but you can do it if it comes to that.
The idea that you can't say no to children if they ask for food when they clearly, clearly have eaten enough is so bloody damaging and dangerous. Rather than setting them up for an eating disorder like anorexia, imo it sets them up for a lifetime of comfort eating.
For instance this evening my ds ate 4 strawberries, 1 slice of wholegrain bread with some ham and some cucumber, and a yogurt for his tea. He got dinner earlier in afterschool.
He was wailing at me after that he was still starving when actually he was shattered tired, and was asleep 30 minutes later. It's totally a comfort thing. I'll probably be flamed for sending him to bed "hungry" but I knew he'd eaten enough!

The very best of luck to you yorksha, I sincerely hope you get this resolved with the nursery x

Spaghetti and mashed potato? They really do like their carbs, don't they!

OP I'm a bit confused about what is served at nursery, because you are sending in a packed lunch as well? Why is she getting spaghetti and mashed potatoes in the afternoon as well? I think you should def ask to see the menu, or photos of what they're eating (if you haven't already) as it all sounds a bit OTT. My DD ate healthily at home, but they were always slipping them biscuits and puddings at nursery. She was only there 3 days a week so I just left it, and they ran around so much there it was never a problem. The portions were really small though. Good luck with whatever you decide (I really fancy a slice of toast now!).

I really agree with you op, and I'm rather surprised by a lot of the comments on here! You are clearly doing what is in the best interests of your child, wanting her to have a healthy and informed attitude towards food. The amount of calories that she is eating at nursery is way too much for a child of her age. I find it ridiculous for other posters to comment that she must be hungry and isn't getting enough food at home - if she was 'starved' 4 days out of 7 then she would really exhibit more symptoms than gorging on toast at nursery!

I would most likely be looking at changing nurseries tbh, not because of the food they are offering but because they are not accommodating your requests as a parent, at all.

Would your dd be old enough to understand about healthy food choices, for instance picking the fruit over toast at break times? If she was (I'll get flamed for this) then even just one day a week or at just one break per nursery day, if she chooses fruit over toast then she could get a sticker or the likes. It isn't just about 'weight' but the other health benefits of choosing the fruit can be easy for a young child to understand. I've done this with my children, and they have been fully informed to make their own choices from a young age. They won't go 'mad' for unhealthy food at parties, as everything is allowed in moderation. Moderation being the key word.

If you don't think that would work for her, perhaps you could even counter balancing her packed lunch to allow for the extra carbs she will be eating as toast?

In all honesty though, I think the nursery should be listening to you and limiting the amount of toast she has, I know this can be difficult if other children are eating toast at the same time, but even just letting her half half a slice rather than a whole one could make a big difference.

Good luck.

Sorry to be 'that person' but 5 slices of toast is also going to contain a fair bit of salt. It's in everything!

'the staff cheerily informed me she had Spaghetti Bolognese and mashed potato for tea'

Oh God, what is with the double carbing!

Agree it's the completely ignoring your wishes that is concerning, and to be honest I'd raise an eyebrow at the above meal even without the worry of dd being overweight, it's just a bit odd and unhealthy! Maybe check out your other nursery options, and at least have a final chat with them with that in mind, laying down how serious you are.

Absolutely would not offer her stickers for picking the 'right' foods though, sorry but think that's that's terrible advice.

Oh ffs. She's three and may well be becoming up to a growth spurt or a phase of living off three strawberries a day.