How do we tackle this?

[Crowdblundering]

This is not really an AIBU so apologies to the thread police

It's more of a WWYD.

Been with OH 8 years two of his kids we have EOW and about half of the school holidays. I love them very much and they don't remember me not being with their dad.

I have an ok relationship with his ex which deteriorated last year after I expressed concern over the state of the house and various dubious lodgers after I visited. This has been drawn a line under but we are no longer friends.

OH and ex split up when the kids were tiny, there were a lot of explosive rows and things thrown by both parties (both have told me this) and once she threw a bottle at him and he grabbed her round the throat (I am not condoning this). He went to counselling and they split not long after (they should never have married IMO).

She has always maintained that he was abusive and she felt she was in an abusive relationship to all of her friends and family and all of her susequent partners meaning that the reception by any partners to OH is always frosty (OH is not and has never been abusive towards me).

It's come out this weekend that she has told the girls (aged 10 and 12) numerous stories about their marriage and his "abuse" towards her. A lot of these stories don't tally (one involves both girls when DSD1 was 18 months old and there are two years between them).

Considering that he is "allowed" to have the kids whatever did or did not go on in their relationship is IMO in the past, not relevant to his relationship with his kids and totally inappropriate (I think mentally abusive) to be relaying to the girls (I never ever did this to my own kids about their dad).

Problem we have is that whenever OH has tackled her over something the girls have said the girls then get into trouble (and she totally ignores whatever the issue is anyway so it's a waste of time) so he can't tackle her. DD1 in particular confides in me a lot (esp since the most recent boyfriend has moved in who she hates) and I never betray her trust as I think it's important that she has people here in our home she trusts and feels are her allies (ideally everyone in both bloody homes!).

I feel so uncomfortable about this, I suggested to the girls that they just tell her (politely) that they don't want to know but am not sure what else we can do? Nothing? Or is there something else?

So you goad and goad for more info then tell me to get it deleted?

Actually I think you might have mentioned that he works with the military and not in it. Civil servant or similar. In which case disregard my last.

My point still stands though on red flags. Just take care

Can see why we get called 'nest of vipers'

Yes op, you won't win once the vipers get the claws in

Well the whole situation sounds like a pile of shit to me. Those poor girls.

My parents' marriage was exTREMEly dysfunctional to the point of being abusive depending on how you look at it. My father is a very different person as a father than he is as a husband, and a different person altogether since he stopped drinking. After my parents divorce my sister and I lived with him. My mum had serious boundary issues god love her and told us a LOT of things she shouldn't have when we were far too young to deal with it. My older sister in particular when we are younger, me later on when my sister had effectively cut contact. I cannot convey the level to which it fucked me up, having to know these terrible things had happened to my mum, and had been done to her by my wonderful, clever, caring father, who had been my primary caregiver since before I formed memories. The cognitive dissonance, divided loyalties and 360 degree guilt nearly drove me mad, threw me into a depression, destroyed my relationship and ended up in counseling. What your DSDs' mother is doing is not abuse - the truth is what it is - but it is terribly damaging and wrong of her imo.

HOWEVER.

It is not about you. I appreciate you care about them, and want to shove your oar in get involved, but please, please don't. The only thing that could have fucked me up worse than I was would have been for my stepmum to have intervened between me and either one of my parents while I was going through this. What I needed was either for my parents to protect me from their past, or that having failed for them to have been open to having a frank discussion as a family (because although they were separated, they were both still MY family) about what happened and how they moved on from it. Anyone else getting involved on either side would have confused the hell out of me.

So for goodness sake back off. Tell the girls if they have any questions about their mothers version of events to ask their father. Offer to be there when they do if they need that back up, but do not get involved in the conversation. If your OH is a decent dad he will answer these questions honestly, dispassionately and kindly, without making excuses for himself or shitting on their mother. If he can't be trusted to do that, ask yourself if he really has changed all that much.

As for 'telling off' DSD2 for telling her mother what she overheard you say about her and calling it 'stirring'... Please just yank your head out of your arse for a minute and imagine what it must be like to be her, her family split, her loyalties being torn every which way, a child in the middle of a maelstrom of adult emotions noone has had the decency to shield her from. She's not bloody stirring. She's hurting, and doesn't know who she should be trying to defend or support. Give the poor kid a fucking break.

I think the person who said to have a party line of "we really weren't suited and we both behaved terribly towards each other" was spot on.

I don't see why they need to know details of abuses, embellished or not, but telling/asking her not to is only likely to fuel the fire.

Erm I never once suggested I was going to "get involved" or "stick my oar in"

I asked how to handle it when the girls tell me this stuff.

We have been the only stable thing in their life's for the last 8 years. Nothing here has changed, same house, same rules, same relationships. When they see their dad is some of the only time I see him too - if we go and have a private vent in our bedroom then she is old enough not to sit there listening and then texting her mother - she knows that will create a shit storm.

Problem is she is very obviously her mothers favorite (and her mothers botfriefs favourite) DSD1 says they hate her and she's always being shouted at. OH can never have a rational conversation with his ex about this because he gets told what a shite dad he is etc etc and DSD2 gets rewarded by her mother for that behaviour which is devious.

She didn't get shouted at she got told off privately by OH and rightly so.

We have a three story house not a bungalow you cannot over hear a conversation in our bedroom from the rest of the house - we genuinely did not expect her to be eavesdropping- who would?

I'm not saying you should have expected her to be eavesdropping. I'm saying that you shouldn't read malice or mischief into her texting what she heard to her mum. Listening at doorways is hardly the behaviour of a happy, secure child. What you say about favourites is also telling - from your POV, DSD1 favours your DP and you so she's a 'good' child. DSD2 has a stronger relationship with her mother, probably because she is still too young to 'see through' her in the way your older SD is - so she's the 'bad' one. This I will drive her further towards her a(dysfunctional-sounding) mother; and when you're young, having an adult confide in you, even horrible things that you find upsetting, is heady stuff. You feel important and trusted. And especially if what she's been told paints her mother as the victim, she may feel like it's her duty to 'look out for' her mother, to protect her - which would include letting her know if people are criticising her behind her back.

TLDR - she's a CHILD. Both her mother and you seem to be forgetting this.

I think it's an absolute disgrace when an OP starts a thread and someone goes searching for past threads. Totally irrelevant!!
Also, it's always said in Relationships, when a person is splitting that the children shouldn't be spoken to about their parents relationship. Neither should be bad mouthed. Yet in here, the mother can say what she likes to her children?!! Come on!!
YANBU OP!!

And btw there's nothing 'stable' about visiting your father every other weekend in a home that isn't actually his but his partner's. That's weird. And by the sounds of what PPs have posted, your relationship for all its longevity doesn't sound like it has always been particularly stablemate No matter what you are comparing it against at her mother's. 'Better than rubbish' is not the same as good.

I hear what you are saying - problem being with mine and DSD2 relationship is - I reported to social care last year - this has detroyed my relationship with their mum.

Mum very into "daddy's girl" and "mummy's girl" (we tell them daddy loves them equally) and she has told DSD2 that I wanted them to be taken away from her.

DSD1 can see I was worried DSD2 is manipulated by her mum into thinking I want to take them away from her (far from it really - I have brought my family up).

DSD2 was really rude to me for months after this which was difficult but it's getting better now as other things have happened which have shown her I love her and only want the best for her.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but as someone who has been the child in this sort of situation it really strikes me how invested you are in protecting your idea of who your OH is (not abusive), and how shit their mother is, over and above how scary and upsetting it must be for his daughters to be thrown into this adult arena and then punished for picking the wrong 'side'.

The children know nothing about any of our issues and this house it ours not mine.

I am doing my best in a bloody difficult situation and also have my own three living here - oh and a career.

I was defending myself about posters suggesting my relationship is abusive.

I think it's disgusting that she is telling them this stuff - whether it's true or not (it's not!) is a separate issue.

Cross posted - I appreciate you are going to a lot of effort to try and have good relationships with your stepdaughters. I just think this is incredibly hard for them, and a bit of gentleness and understanding when they make the wrong choices is definitely in order. So eg if you really have to tell her off, make it for listening at doorways rather than what she does or doesn't share with her mum. The poor kid must be so confused.

Sorry I thought you said your OH lives in Scotland?

In the week he's on the base in Scotland he comes home to the South West every weekend. EOW he picks his DDs up from Devon "on the way".

As for the children not knowing about your issues - children are very sensitive to tension in the home, especially children of broken homes (even more so where the parents don't get on). Just because you haven't gone down the mother's route of laying it all out on a plate for them, doesn't mean they were unaware of tensions and it is self-decieving to imagine otherwise.

They didn't know, it happened and then he went away for four months.

Ye gods, he drives from Scotland to the SW every weekend??? Rather him than me! But fair did, if that's the only place the DCs stay with him and it is his home, then I retract!

Yeah - he is very committed to his girls - and to being with me/us and being a family.

I'd avoid mentioning the ex at all when they're in the house. And just be there for them. Help them process what they need to. If they mention anything stick to the line that they weren't suited and that's why the marriage dissolved.

My husband had me up against our cooker once by the throat. We had a barney that went too far and I was by no means innocent. We live with children who have disabilities and our house is very stressful. It's never happened again. He's not verbally, physically, financially or emotionally abusive. I can understand it being a red flag but its never again in any form.

Carowd I am sorry this sounds very hard.

I'd just do as others advise, keep out of it, avoid talking about their mum with your OH when they are there. Be a lovely, loving listening ear when they need one.

Good luck.

Plus good advice from bojorojo on first page.

And lelapaletute offers very wise advice from personal experience that should help you to further see the children's position.

So; you report the Mum to SS because of the state of her house? You have disapproving opinions about her life and lover. You seem to prefer the eldest child over the younger girl.

Your OH also seems over invested in his ExW. The texts, the trying to control her by ranting if he doesn't like what the children have commented on. (Children have been known to embellish things).

If you are sincere in your concern, and not just point scoring over his Ex I would buy both girls a diary each in which they could write out their feelings and worries. These diaries should remain private and unread by any of the adults unless the child offers it to them. Might be an idea to contact their schools and ask to speak to the FLO.

No, in an ideal world children should be unaware of adult wrangling and past behaviours. it does sound as if emotions are still running very high; after such a long period of time this does suggest there may indeed be some truth in the abuse claims by the Ex. She would have been able to move on otherwise.

Posters have said you need to keep out of it and just be supportive when needed. I agree. You most certainly should not be reporting their mother to SS. How dare you?

So I had safe guarding concerns about my DSDs but I am expected to ignore them because I am a step mother?

Seriously - only on MN.