To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

They talk about getting disabled people back into work but they've been cutting ATW for years. The scheme which provides disabled people with support at work relating to their disability. A scheme which has been proven to be cost effective with the government receiving £1.40ish for every £1 they spend. It's all lies, they talk the talk but they walk the walk. It's disgusting.

As for pensions and care. The pensions side I'm for, the care side is shocking. It's basically fobbing social care off the state. The amount is £100k now, but it'll be reduced to you pay for your own care in its entirety. It's a death/disability tax.

May has also spoken about stuff like that. All it is is soundbites.

You may not like what she has said but she has spoken about Brexit.

Labour has no more of a plan than the Tories. I'm just not so partisan to not see it.

The amount is £100k now, but it'll be reduced to you pay for your own care in its entirety.

Maybe maybe not. No one has a crystal ball.

Many people have lost homes to pay for care homes and ended up with next to nothing. Especially not 100k. Including under a Labour government.

Under this policy now my Grandmother would have not lost her home and died with next to nothing to pass down as her house even now would not be worth 100k.

she has spoken about Brexit.

All Theresa May has said is "Red, white and Blue" - repeated over and over.

What is strong and stable about having no plan? That is the opposite of strong and stable.

And who are the Tories aligning us with in this brave new world? Donald Trump.

Given recent developments that is very, very sinister.

We need transparency. And a plan.

Yes YABU.

I didn't know what infuriated me the most yesterday, suggesting the elderly contribute to their own social care (like they haven't already been paying in for years) or going on to describe it as a Trade Off. Like old people are just commodities.

I'm actually in agreement with the winter fuel payment being scrapped for the wealthier pensioners who clearly don't need it. My Mum once had a friend who was incredibly well off, he used to live off the interests of his savings and just used to add his weekly pension to his savings each week. He didn't need it. He used to use his winter fuel payment for a deposit on his yearly cruise. On the other hand I watched my late elderly aunt with terminal lung cancer trying to eek out her weekly shopping in Morrison's to get it under a tenner.

People also appear to have short memories about the whole lower taxes thing, it was only two months ago they had to do a massive u-turn on their plans to increase tax for the self employed.

They talk about getting disabled people back into work but they've been cutting ATW for years

Shame Remploy had to go then.

My Grandad worked all his life. He'd been in a care home for a good few years as he had dementia. The family had tried caring for him at home for a few years previously but it got to the point where they had to make the decision to put him in a home.

He had quite a nest egg. That all went on his care home fees. It's almost like the conservatives have this deluded idea that the elderly only spend a max of six months in care homes. I remember my Grandad coming to my DDs christening with my Aunty in his wheelchair before he was put in a care home with his dementia (DD was 1). He died two years ago from pneumonia. When my DD was 9. So that's 8years of very expensive care home fees. We as a family had to club together to pay for his very basic funeral. This will be a lot more common now. Sadly.

As for pensions and care. The pensions side I'm for, the care side is shocking. It's basically fobbing social care off the state. The amount is £100k now, but it'll be reduced to you pay for your own care in its entirety. It's a death/disability tax.

I wasn't happy with what is expected essentually a dementia tax... it seems totally unfair that if your health deteriorates due to cancer or heart problems your treatment is free, but dementia then it's completely different....
However.... on reflection it is significantly better than how things are now where the threshold is £13k. It's also fairer than putting a cap on care costs whilst keeping the £13k threshold (as had previously been mooted) as this would have meant those with £2.5m assets would be protected but not someone with £25k.

I think it's shone a light on what is a huge unfairness in our current health/care system that no party has resolved (I don't recall Labour of LDs looking to change £13k threshold in their manifestos).

Assuming the Tories get in, I'm hoping the £100k limit should make it easier for insurance products to be created for 50/60 year olds to protect their assets in case they require huge care packages (£500k isn't unknown) in their 80/90s as per a thread I started the other day. This isn't ideal but would help manage issue and at least give people options.

I'm completely lost on who to vote for for the first time in my life,
I can't really vote labour as I just find corbyn a joke, but then cons seem to want to screw me over.

See I was living a fairly normal life, I was a police officer, we were fairly screwed over at work with cuts to pay and pensions etc but I got over that but what I struggle with is the disabled/ill people. So then I got Cancer, stage 4. I'm dying. So I lost my job, my income, my normal life, but because I'm not apparently dying fast enough I.e with the PIP specified 6 months time I'm not entitled to any financial help. I never ever expected to be in this shitty situation, how do they expect me to keep a roof over my dying head?? It's shocking that they want to cut it even more. How can I work? Some days I'm fine, the next day I feel dreadful.
It's an awful situation to be in and May wants to make it more difficult for us..... as you can see, what do I do???

We as a family had to club together to pay for his very basic funeral. This will be a lot more common now. Sadly.

They get to keep 100k now if in a care home. They didn't before.

"Many people have lost homes to pay for care homes and ended up with next to nothing. Especially not 100k. Including under a Labour government."

Good point Piglet. Still, the Dilnot proposal was supposed to prevent that happening in future - though with hindsight that never seemed likely to happen. I'm not sure what the predicted cost of Dilnot was.

Anyway, looking at the wider effects, inheritance is contributing to higher property prices - another source of funds to maintain them. So to the (perhaps quite limited?) extent that it reduces inheritance, in the long term the measure may have a beneficial effect of keeping property prices a bit lower than they otherwise would have been.

Like every party, there are some good things, some bad.

They do seem completely delusional about Brexit though. TM has said it could be a disaster if they don't get a good deal but a good deal depends on the EU agreeing to something that would be damaging to itself.

It's almost like the conservatives have this deluded idea that the elderly only spend a max of six months in care homes.

The Tories are getting a disproportionately hard time for this. They are making things better by increasing level to £100k... it's still crap and it angers me that health and care are treated so differently, but better than £13k, yet other parties who haven't mentioned anything on this issue aren't tackled!

Anyway, looking at the wider effects, inheritance is contributing to higher property prices - another source of funds to maintain them. So to the (perhaps quite limited?) extent that it reduces inheritance, in the long term the measure may have a beneficial effect of keeping property prices a bit lower than they otherwise would have been.

You may have a point about inheritance and house prices, but it's surely totally unfair to look to manage that issue by clobbering those with dementia but leaving others untouched. It's the unfairness that's the issue.

"Assuming the Tories get in, I'm hoping the £100k limit should make it easier for insurance products to be created for 50/60 year olds to protect their assets in case they require huge care packages"

I think Dilnot found that it was not possible to insure - not sure, I haven't read it all? Not sure the £100k threshold would make a huge difference to the difficulties of private insurance would it? - the bill may still be many hundreds.

I can't remember why it's so difficult for the market to provide insurance - perhaps it's because if 1/7 will end up needing it the premiums will always be very high, so people either can't afford it or decide to take their chances.

The treatment is not necessarily free for cancer. A relative paid for home care until Re went down the palliative care round. Even then she had to pay travel expenses for the carers coming in.

"You may have a point about inheritance and house prices, but it's surely totally unfair to look to manage that issue by clobbering those with dementia but leaving others untouched. It's the unfairness that's the issue."

I agree!

But I suppose many would say that inheritance itself is unfair - which it is! (As between the inheritors/noninheritors.) So it is an interesting question - as some say, why should taxpayers pay to perpetuate unfair inheritances? On the other hand why should taxpayers pay to perpetuate unfair inheritances by paying for pensioners' cancer treatment (which can also run into hundreds of ks)? But nobody (yet) has suggested that pensioners should pay for that as well. Perhaps they will, soon.

True fab, I was thinking of the cost of surgery, chemo, nursing care in hospital, rather than the 'social care' element.

You are right that there are lots of other costs associated with illness which are not paid for - so perhaps in that sense it is not so very different.

It's interesting that they want to get rid of the Serious Fraud Office.....

Ok if they want to get people with disabilities into work if it is work they can do, possibly part time, alongside their PIP /ESA benefits- however at present a whiff if work capability and they withdraw it all...which puts people off even trying voluntary work as it will trigger a 'change in circumstances review'. If they did get lots better, (magically) and working full time that is different, but at present it is a nightmare.

I wonder if this care will include things like care from relatives at home, including carer's allowance, attendance allowance and disability benefts- will the elderly be expected to ay this back after death as well, as it would be 'care in the home'? and if so, where do they draw the line? Only for those of pension age?

Yes. But what does it say that these Tory proposals are always divisive? Always targeting the aged and school dinners.

Always things that divide?

Why not hope and promise instead of fear and division?

But what does it say that these Tory proposals are always divisive?

All parties have divisive policies.

Always targeting the aged

Apart from the fact they don't. Which to an extent is why thelse policies are a suprise.

Or maybe piglets, it could be the most obvious reason: ideology.

\occams razor.

What happened to the Care Cap that was supposed to come happen in 2020? One assumes this negates it.
As for keeping 100,000, this seems unlikely as if you're in care the local council isn't going to take over payments whilst you still have funds in the bank.