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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find vegans really annoying?

422 replies

seriouslynowdontbesoearnest · 16/05/2017 00:12

Just that really. I know a few and my god do they ever preach on and on about their coconut oil macha powder cacao powder chia seed energy balls and milk industry and calves being killed etc. It's the over earnestness and attitude that they are the most enlightened people to walk this planet that wind me up. It reminds me of being 18 again.

OP posts:
user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 10:31

What does that mean in practice though Anon? Actual examples of how higher welfare is applied, please.

And cote don't be daft, you know there's a world of difference between a bull and a cow mating in a field, and a man up repeatedly ramming his arm up to the elbow in cow vagina whilst trapping her in a tiny metal pen, whilst she writhes in pain.

user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 10:35

man

Rockaby · 17/05/2017 10:36

Much of 'natural' animal mating looks like rape to me.

Yes, I've thought exactly this^^ many times! Life outside captivity wouldn't be pleasant for most agricultural animals. Rape, starvation, constant fear of being attacked by predators, and I say that as someone who is well on their way to being vegan! I don't buy the sanctuaries idea either, personally. I just don't think that would happen if we suddenly stopped using animal products altogether. Mind you I can't see a time in the near future when we will stop using animal products either. Maybe by the time we do, things will be very different.

I think I saw something about the term 'rape rack' being used by people within the dairy industry? I'm not sure, though maybe that's why people say 'rape' rather than 'artificial insemination'? Don't know.

anon1987 · 17/05/2017 10:42

User148 they graze freely and are never kept cooped up in a pen. There's none of the barbaric treatment leading up to slaughter basically. You can't get more 'high welfare' then that in the farming industry.
Their chickens are free range as well, they have a 'natural' life.

I can't see what harm you're doing in keeping a few hens on your land and using the eggs they deposit??
Are vegans apposed to someone eating eggs from their hens that they love and keep as pets, tending to all their needs, keeping them safe and giving them freedom to roam about clucking happily??

user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 10:43

In truth, studying the sexuality of and consent in cows hasn't been the top priority of human beings so far. But hey, there's a dissertation waiting to be written!

user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 10:46

Are they red tractor, anon? Or some other certification? Because what you describe is definitely the exception rather than the rule, and presumably if these cows produce milk for mass consumption, their babies are taken from them rather than drinking it themselves? And what happens to all the surplus male calves?

derxa · 17/05/2017 10:49

a man up repeatedly ramming his arm up to the elbow in cow vagina whilst trapping her in a tiny metal pen, whilst she writhes in pain. Have you actually seen artificial insemination?

derxa · 17/05/2017 10:51

if these cows produce milk for mass consumption, their babies are taken from them rather than drinking it themselves? And what happens to all the surplus male calves? She's talking about beef breeds where the calves are suckled by their mothers

RachelA1 · 17/05/2017 10:52

It's silly to say you hate a group of people unless you know every one of those people in the group. It's like saying you hate all black people because there was one you didn't like once. Be a bit more open minded and less defensive would be my advice,

InMemoryOfSleep · 17/05/2017 11:02

@RachelA1 no, it's not like that at all. Saying you find a group of people irritating, when that group are defined by their lifestyle choice (choosing to be vegan, choosing to smoke, etc) is NOT the same as hating a group defined by a birth characteristic - sexuality, skin colour, gender, etc. So please stop conflating that two.

blerp · 17/05/2017 11:04

"Deal with the fact that people think your food choices are morally wrong."

Sounds nice if you rattle that off quickly but actually, why?! Nobody I know has been informed of what I think is morally wrong about their lifestyle. I think a lot of people would consider, if the premise of an exchange is a moral judgment against for you going about your normal life, we are into territory someone should keep to themselves until absolutely practically necessary, certainly in blighty. Just like religious requirements etc.

Much of 'natural' animal mating looks like rape to me.

Thing is that once you let go of common sense and start anthropomorphizing your food this is an easy leap to make. A ridiculous one, but there it is.

Rantymare · 17/05/2017 11:11

blerp last time it happened it was my 80 year old Grandmother!
But It's also happened at work meals out etc "Ooh don't you want some of this".. wafting their burger/steak in my face. I usually remain calm rather than saying "can you fuck off and let me eat" which is what I WANT to do! And instead just say something like "well no, otherwise I'd have ordered it, my choices are just that, I'm not forced!". I suspect if I did the former response, people would go home ranting about how unreasonable and snappy vegans were!

anon I was joking when I said that but you have a point. I'll have a serious think about it now. :) I eat healthily much of the time but there's also a lot of stodge involved and I make awesome cakes if I do say so myself :)

blerp · 17/05/2017 11:19

@Ranty - I've actually got more respect for vegans who say what they mean than the middle ground that wants it sanitized.

As I was saying before, neither vegans, nor ideologically comfortable "carnivores" like me are as big a problem to animal welfare as the people who expect the nasty stuff to be hidden away, kept out of sight. Personally I would be all for tonne-of-bricks level sanctions for those who make food/dairy animals suffer unnecessarily. So (contrary to what some people seem to imagine around here) would a lot of farmers who care a great deal about their animals and that they live a happy life.

Lightship · 17/05/2017 11:23

Sounds nice if you rattle that off quickly but actually, why?! Nobody I know has been informed of what I think is morally wrong about their lifestyle. I think a lot of people would consider, if the premise of an exchange is a moral judgment against for you going about your normal life, we are into territory someone should keep to themselves until absolutely practically necessary, certainly in blighty. Just like religious requirements etc.

Oh, come on, virtually every thread on AIBU (and large sections of the rest of Mn) rests on people forming negative judgements of other people's parenting, manners, hosting, drinking behaviour at the school gate, inability to stop folding their DIL's knickers/watering down their Fairy Liquid on visits etc etc. Anything you do, however innocuous (washing up bowls? saying 'pardon'? how often you wash your bra?) is up for potential judgement.

For clarity, I can safely say that never in my entire life have I said 'I think that your meat-eating is morally/ethically-wrong' to meat-eating friends, including people who hunt their food, and those who aren't fussy about battery chickens/cheap meat etc. I have never initiated a conversation about vegetarianism. But, as attested by many posts on this thread, apparently I don't have to say anything. The mere sight of me minding my own business and eating something vegetarian across the table is an implicit reproach, which makes complete strangers start to shriek about carrots screaming when you pull them.

Lightship · 17/05/2017 11:25

Pulling the carrots, that is. I am not trying to pull the huffy carnivore across the table. I am peacefully eating my vegetarian lasagne. Grin

PhyllisNights · 17/05/2017 11:27

To be perfectly honest, us vegans/vegetarians find some meat eaters to be really inconsiderate.

Rantymare · 17/05/2017 11:29

Yes,agree with all you've said there, blerp. I'm not a fan of censorship when it comes to a lot of things actually. And if those sorts of farmers were more the norm, I don't even know if I would be vegan anyway. I've not met preachy vegans but perhaps I've just been lucky. However I don't tend to seek out other vegans for friendship. I'm not much of a 'group' sort of lass :)

alltouchedout · 17/05/2017 11:30

I'm a vegetarian trying to transition to vegan. I don't much care what the rest of you eat (I married a meat lover, my sons all eat meat, I don't think there are any other veggies in my family tbh). But when someone asks me why I don't eat meat and am trying to give up all animal produce, and I tell them, they act as if I have attacked them. Which makes me think, why fucking raise the topic if you're going to get in such a state when I give my opinion? I read the first post in this thread and honest to goodness rolled my eyes, it sounded like "waaaahhhhh people are doing what they think is the right thing and I am not and the fact that they are doing it and daring to say why why upsets me waaaaaaaaahhhhhh". Eat the meat and cheese, drink the milk, just stop fucking whining about people who prefer not to.

Member341379 · 17/05/2017 11:44

I do not go around telling people I am vegan. I would imagine my boss, lots of my co-workers, parents of my kids, neighbours etc have no idea (nor do they care). I know a few vegetarians and no vegans in my day to day life (that I know of - can be hard to spot them :-) ) and none are "preachy". I have been vegetarian for over 30 years and vegan for the last 2. I can tell you it gets tiring all the "would you like a bite of my burger" "bacon hmmm" etc. that get when people find out I am vegan.

Here are two such instances which have happened to me recently.

  1. At my brothers 50th birthday myself and DH (Neither a vegan or a vegetarian) went to a restaurant with my BIL friends, most of whom I don't know nor have ever met. Everyone got their menu but knew this restaurant had a vegan one so I quietly asked the waiter to get me one. I ordered my dinner (which was horrible by the way :-) ) and I had people who I do not know holding a plate of foie gras up to my face saying "I bet the goose loved being force feed to give us this beauty" and another person telling me that dairy cows aren't killed ever and multiple offers of a bit of steak. (This was all by men if that is relevant). My BIL partner who was quite (male) who didn't know I was vegan then started shouting that he still liked me even though I was vegan!

My SIL had a party for my FIL 80th. I brought my own food. It was a buffet and my SIL kept on shouting a people "That's the vegan food". It was hummus, refried beans, rice salad and a mixed salad FFS. I started pointing out (gently) that the tomatoes, beetroot and carrots were also vegan.

All vegans are annoying though!

user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 11:49

Yes, to whoever asked, I've seen footage of 'artifical insemination' in cows. Fucking brutal, it was. Had me in floods of tears. How about you?

And I'm incredibly disturbed that so many people on this site think 'inability to determine consent' in another species equals 'inability for that animal to be raped or brutalised whatever we do to them'.

It's MN's 'we believe you' campaign (but only if you're the same species of sentient mammal as we are).

In fact, from what I understand about the evolution of the brain, the reptilian part is about fear, pain, hunger, fight or flight. The mammalian part is about the higher emotions of love and loss, bonding between pairs and offspring, etc, so unless you're ignorant of that, it makes perfect sense to take about cows mourning their stolen calves, love necessary for lactation being exploited, animals experiencing terror in the slaughterhouse regardless of whether they're unofficially tortured beforehand or not.

Rockaby · 17/05/2017 11:58

And I'm incredibly disturbed that so many people on this site think 'inability to determine consent' in another species equals 'inability for that animal to be raped or brutalised whatever we do to them'.

Jesus, who thinks that^^?! What a horrific notion.

user1487175389 · 17/05/2017 12:03

Rtft, rockaby. Sadly lots of MNers think this way, I've discovered.

CoteDAzur · 17/05/2017 12:05

"Deal with the fact that people think your food choices are morally wrong."

And you think I care abut the cultish beliefs of deluded strangers who judge the "morality" of an omnivore species eating animal products Grin

I have long ago "dealt with" the fact that people have all sorts of strange beliefs, like planets at the time of their birth defining their character & destiny, solutions getting more potent the more they are diluted, a God judging their lives & deciding where they'll go after death, or humans should not eat animal products (although they are tasty, nutritious, and a perfectly normal part of our diet as a species since back when our ancestors were living in caves). None of it bothers me one bit, FYI.

SapphireStrange · 17/05/2017 12:06

Well, I know vegans who aren't preachy, and people who aren't vegans who bore on about coconut oil/matcha/chia seeds etc. And people who aren't vegans who are generally food bores/snobs.

They're all annoying. Grin Nothing to do with being vegan.

MoominFlaps · 17/05/2017 12:06

None of it bothers me one bit, FYI.

Strange you keep posting on the thread then Wink