Junior rugby tour - am I prudish and uptight?

[reallyneedmoresleep]

I've just spent last weekend on rugby tour with DS (almost 13). I was one of only 4 mums there - most kids were with their dads or a "nominated adult ".
I know laddish behaviour is to be expected on rugby tour but most of the dads were seriously hammered from before we even got on the coach in our home town - and the kids were all helping themselves to beer and cider too. The dads thought it was all highly amusing but these kids were 12,13 and 14.
DS didn't want to drink anything and ended up not being part of the boys' social group all weekend . This was ok but on the last day it escalated to him being thrown to the ground several times and then when he started crying the other boys nicked his shoes and tied them out of reach, only giving them back when I intervened. The coaches did nothing -- just carried on drinking their beer.
So, AIBU to think that this is all a bit much? Or am I being overprotective and uptight? What would you have done in my situation?

MissEliza - in contrast, dh made sure to stop all games for his U16s (in Scotland, so some in S4 doing Nat 5s the equivalent of GCSEs and some in S5 doing their Highers their university entrance qualifications) a few weeks before exams started (last week) as he didn't want to risk concussions or other injuries too close to the exams.

The U18s at our club have been under the aegis of the senior club one of the reasons why ds is not playing for them - but that is going to be sorted next year (according to the SRU they should be part of the junior set up), so we will have more control over them.

This is quite shocking, my DS is 12 and will start juniors next year, and I would be so disappointed in the coaches and kids if this sort of stuff went on.

DH loves rugby, and likes a beer, but hates laddish behaviour, and would not put up with it at all. DS already quit judo because the sexist crap was getting to him ("act like a man!", and "Don't be a girl", "crying is for girls" it infuriated him).

Surely surely (hopefully) there are other kids like the OP's and mine who would just not stand for this kind of crap behaviour?

(And we also have full medical info for all registered players including their doctor's details: I know because I do the Junior registration and the coaches have been well nagged briefed to ensure that all new players come and see me )

Prettybird I was shocked when they arranged the tour so close to the exams. Dh only agreed to go at the last minute when he found ds was the only one not going. When he was in the U16s they played a team who were on tour. The other team were playing pretty poorly and one of the dads turned to us and said 'they're all hungover!' Most of them would only have been 15!
.After matches between clubs in our area there is a sit down meal between the clubs. There's a tradition of choosing a boy from each team and having a downing competition, where the boy who downs his (non-alcoholic) drink and places his glass on his head first is the winner. The boys know that the older players do this with beer and it makes excessive and silly drinking look cool.

DS already quit judo because the sexist crap was getting to him ("act like a man!", and "Don't be a girl", "crying is for girls" it infuriated him).

I think this is such a shame. Your son has had to be inconvenienced and give up something he enjoyed because he was in the right and not happy with the sexism being spouted. Good for him for not joining in and going along with it, recognising how ridiculous and sexist it was, though. I hope he can find another place to do judo or another sport he likes where he won't be amongst such sexist attitudes which limit everyone.

Male ex Rugby player.

Unacceptable behaviour on behalf of the adults - you can bet that they'd complain if their children's teachers acted in the same fashion on a school trip. Not only were the boys bullying your son, the men were bullying you, a woman, by proxy.

Kick up a stink by talking to other Mums and complain to the club chairman. If his response is poor, report them to your local RFU. Don't budge, show your son the right way to go about things.

The only boy in ds' U18 team who drinks to excess is teased for being stupid by his team mates.

The coaches don't stop them drinking but do keep a strict eye on them to make sure they don't go too far.

None of the U16s are drinking yet - at least not around their coaches as they wouldn't tolerate it. Can't vouch for what they do at home. About half of them have turned 16 now - so technically they can have alcohol with a meal.

Ds did used to say he was never going to drink his body is a temple . We just smiled and nodded

My 13 YO says 'my body is a temple', too, prettybird. It's hard to keep a straight face, I find.

Just spoken to dh about this. He immediately said "Report it to the RFU". Not to be tolerated.

Incidentally, we had a problem a few years ago with one of the Midis coaches who was effectively condoning (although he didn't realise it) a bullying ethos amongst his team. Dh had the unenviable task of telling him a guy whose life centred around rugby that he could no longer coach

Coincidentally, the Girls' coach has just shared this post from Shiplake Rugby....this is what rugby should be about - and is about in the majority of clubs.

Only think I would change about it would be to make it more unisex - as our club is mixed up to P7 and then (thanks to the coach who shared it) we have thriving U15 and U18s Girls' teams

FROM A RUGBY PARENT:

One of my friends asked "Why do you pay so much money and spend so much time running around for your son to play rugby?" Well I have a confession to make: I don't pay for my son's rugby training or his kit, mouthguard or boots. Or even his hundreds of rugby balls.

So, if I am not paying for rugby, what am I paying for?

• I pay for those moments when my boy becomes so tired he feels like quitting but doesn't..

• I pay for the opportunity that my boy can have and will have to make life-long friendships.

• I pay for the chance that he may have amazing coaches that will teach him that rugby is not just about game plans but about life.

• I pay for my child to learn to be disciplined.

• I pay for my boy to learn to take care of his body.

• I pay for my son to learn to work with others and to be a proud, supportive, kind and respectful team member.

• I pay for my child to learn to deal with disappointment, when he doesn't get that try he hoped for, or dropped the ball despite having practiced a thousand times, but still gets up and is determined to do his BEST next time...

• I pay for my boy to learn to make and accomplish goals.

• I pay for my son to learn that it takes hours and hours and hours and hours of hard work and practice to create a champion, and that success does not happen overnight.

• I pay so that my son can be on the pitch instead of in front of a screen...

I could go on but, to be short, I don't pay for rugby; I pay for the opportunities that rugby provides my child to develop attributes that will serve him well throughout his life, and give him the opportunity to bless the lives of others. From what I have seen for many years, I think it is a great investment!

#shiplakerugby

I've seen that post in different forms about lots of different sports (tennis, swimming, riding etc) - not to say it isn't a good post, but I'm fairly certain it's not unique to Shiplake rugby......

I just copied the Facebook entry

I'm sure it - or similar - is true across many sports.

For me personally, one of my favourite bits of every rugby game - which still makes me well up after 11 years of ds playing - is the wee dance that both teams do at the end of the game: lining up to shake each other's hands and then two teams taking it in turns to form a tunnel to clap through the other team. And that's before they have after-match hospitality together in the clubhouse.

Our club is so brilliant at making every child - whether they are a future England rugby star, or can barely catch a ball - feel part of something bigger - every child gets to play in festivals, matches etc and it's all really inclusive. The child who won the coaches player of the year this year hadn't even held a rugby ball at the beginning of the season but scored 10s of tries, and had a HUGE smile on his face at every training session. (I actually wouldn't be surprised if he does go on to play for England - he has a natural aptitude!)

The football mothers I know are always complaining about the nepotisim and negativity and lack of inclusion for the less able - and that's not just from one club, that seems to be across several different clubs/teams.

That's very much our club's ethos.

We are also "Postive Coaching Scotland" accredited - all about a whole club positive ethos, with a to quote the jargon a "mastery rather than a scoreboard culture", with a motto of "Coach to enjoy, coach to include, coach to enthuse, coach to achieve". Respect for coaches, the other team and especially referees - by both players and especially parents is an integral part. So we (the parents) will always applaud the tries scored by the opposition - and try not to shout too much at the referee.

Dh has written a strategy where he talks about "Fledglings to Old Farts" ie encouragement from an early age to enjoy the game, make lifelong friendships and then return to "give back" as coaches and/or run the club itself (which also requires volunteers to operate - the bar staff and the grass cutters are the only paid employees).

This is something that could go in the culture shock thread. I am in the eastern US and like a pp said, this would make the local news if it happened here and arrests would be made.

If a parent arrived at a bus for a tour at 10 in the morning with a can of lager in his hand, he would not be allowed on the bus, people would be seriously concerned about him and would be talking about it for weeks.

I don't think these are "lovely men" at all.

Technically in Scotland (don't know about England) it is illegal to drink alcohol on buses going to/from sporting events.

The 'rugger bugger' culture from the old days involved drinking on tour from early morning til late at night - my exH had loads of tales about his rugby tours. Unfortunately those players are often coaches reliving their own past tours - yes its wrong and I believe its changing.,

Biggest problem for coaches on my sons team were the parents who would go to a point 'on tour' then supply offspring with alcohol to sneak in past the coaches. Happened a lot according to my son. Kids then went to bed like good boys and had a party in their dorm/caravan/hostel room.

On my daughters rugby tour, the under 15s girls were talking about filling Capri Sun packs with vodka and resealing them with hair straighteners!

There will come a point where there are no volunteers left for these tours

I am fairly shocked by what is on this thread. There are multiple issues - adults drunk in charge of children, adults giving alcohol to very young children and also adults allowing bullying?

The vast majority of posters have condemned what was described in the OP LadyAntonia (and similar posts) and have gone as far as to say it should be reported to the RFU (or the equivalent bodies for the other nations).

It is most definitely not what would be acceptable at any if the rugby clubs that I know - and I'm sure England is not that different.

The old "drinking" culture might still exist amongst some of the "Senior" clubs (especially the 2nd and 3rd teams where they perhaps don't take their rugby as seriously ), but it is not encouraged in the Junior Sections.

Given that in rugby most many of the coaches are themselves parents of the Junior players, they don't want to encourage their own children to drink - nor will should they condone or ignore bullying.

Every single one of the coaches at our local club is a parent of a Junior member - with one exception: ds who is coaching the S1s (even though he is temporarily playing elsewhere). The only reason dh got involved with coaching is because of ds (whose original team he still coaches).

All the coaches are volunteers: none are paid.

I'm not in the UK but coaches here have to have minimum qualifications and clubs need to have (according to size) different numbers of coaches at different levels. I'm not sure I'd want someone unqualified, no matter how well-meaning, to be teaching my child to scrummage

paap1975 The parents all have to have coaching qualifications to be on the pitch at our club, and I'm 100% sure that will be the same everywhere. The club's insurance depends on it.

I think it works out that so many parents end up coaching because it's more fun to get involved than to stand watching for two hours every week!

Mmm our rugby club did quite 'laddish' tours. It would have been really, really odd for a mother to go to be honest. 'Orphaned' boys (i.e. Father couldn't attend) went under care of an adopted father for the duration.
They had a strict programme, silly rules, dress code and more outlandish behaviour as they got older.
Certainly most fathers were intoxicated but not all. At 12/13 years there was less alcohol. At 14 it was downing pints of shandy. At 15, in fairness, the boys had beer too. At 16 the boys held their own against the fathers who were reaching age where they wanted less of a hangover. At 17 the fathers felt old and didn't stand a chance.
There were tour 'Courts' for offences like eating salad instead of burgers, adults drinking anything other than beer, farting, not knowing the words to all three verses of national anthem. Made the lads howl with laughter. Fathers could be required to stand trial for sins of the sons - dropping the ball was attributed to poor parenting etc.
Was there bullying? No never. The fathers were intrinsically kind and whilst teasing was encouraged particularly of the loudest, most confident lads the quiet or new ones were only teased sufficiently to allow them to feel included but not to cause upset. Punishment depended on age/crime and personality. It was never cruel.
Did lads play fight? Yes but then most of our friends boys have been playing together since the age of four and tackles were seen as something to aspire to. I find continual tackling in the house incredibly irritating it haven't managed to stop it yet and they're all in their 20s now. They have stopped tackling me now - a stage they all went through between about 16-20. You'd think a group of army officers would be able to communicate without hurling each other to the ground but apparently not.

This sounds like a total nightmare. I have organised and been on many school trips with teenagers and we would be sacked instantly if we were turning a blind eye to children drinking.

You can imagine that many of the parents drinking and allowing the boys to drink would be very quick to complain if this happened in a school trip.

I think anyone saying "rugby tours are very restrained now" are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Not saying that this was OK with such young lads. Of course not. But adult rugby tours are, in my experience, as drunken and raucous as ever.

My job involves hosting junior rugby tours and we get a dozen clubs each year staying with us at different times end of season.

The dads (and mums) have a drink but I have never seen them allowing the kids to drink. Nor have I seen any evidence that the kids have secretly had a drink either.

The kangaroo courts are always good fun and everyone takes part.

If I had seen any of the kids being allowed alcohol, or under the influence of it, I would have dealt with it.