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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Junior rugby tour - am I prudish and uptight?

105 replies

reallyneedmoresleep · 10/05/2017 09:39

I've just spent last weekend on rugby tour with DS (almost 13). I was one of only 4 mums there - most kids were with their dads or a "nominated adult ".
I know laddish behaviour is to be expected on rugby tour but most of the dads were seriously hammered from before we even got on the coach in our home town - and the kids were all helping themselves to beer and cider too. The dads thought it was all highly amusing but these kids were 12,13 and 14.
DS didn't want to drink anything and ended up not being part of the boys' social group all weekend . This was ok but on the last day it escalated to him being thrown to the ground several times and then when he started crying the other boys nicked his shoes and tied them out of reach, only giving them back when I intervened. The coaches did nothing -- just carried on drinking their beer.
So, AIBU to think that this is all a bit much? Or am I being overprotective and uptight? What would you have done in my situation?

OP posts:
BelleTheSheepdog · 10/05/2017 10:42

Yes it can be different elsewhere. Club cultures do vary. The little I know about rugby from friends and family with kids involved in different parts of the UK sounds quite different from your club.

Caenea · 10/05/2017 10:42

Just as an example here, I was in the ATC (air cadets) as a youth. Our staff were all unpaid too.

If a single one of them had turned up for an event pissed, all HELL would have broken loose, let lone the outrage that would have ensued if the kids had been drinking too. Unpaid volunteering is not carte blanche to do whatever the hell they like.

If it's a proper club, they must be affiliated with an organisation or parent club? Report the hell out of it. Keep reporting until someone listens and in the meantime whip him straight out. There would be no issue with asking potential clubs if they would condone such activity. If they react with horror as they should, you probably have a good club.

BluePeppers · 10/05/2017 10:43

Btw I have a MAJOR issue about laddish behaviour being normal.
That's the sort of attitude that also goes with a lot of other issues other than alcohol.
That's what you hear when teenage boys are making comments about girls for example, very derogatory comments. It's brushed away because they are just being 'lads'.

Imo it shouldn't be tolerated. Being a 'lad' doesn't excuse from being a decent human being.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 10/05/2017 10:43

I'm quite surprised you need to ask if this is normal. Of course it wouldn't happen at another club! Move your son immediately!

I'd be getting in touch with the police about alcohol being supplied to minors. It sounds like a nasty culture for those other boys to be a part of and someone should put a stop to it.

senua · 10/05/2017 10:43

Your DS may be right to think about moving clubs - there are definitely different cultures in different clubs. His current club seems a bit, ahem, pre-historic. Presumably he knows something of other local clubs (behaviour of players on the pitch and parents on the touchline) and can pick a good 'un.

Our coaches were volunteer dads, too, but that didn't stop them adhering to the rules.

ArgyMargy · 10/05/2017 10:43

I wonder whether these "volunteers" DBS status would be compromised if it was confirmed they had allowed/encouraged 12 year olds to drink alcohol?

NoLoveofMine · 10/05/2017 10:44

That's what you hear when teenage boys are making comments about girls for example, very derogatory comments. It's brushed away because they are just being 'lads'.

Indeed. It's that kind of culture which leads to the horrific misogyny I hear from unfortunately a lot of boys I've known, which they think is entirely acceptable as it's been normalised and brushed off as "one of those things which happens".

Somerville · 10/05/2017 10:44

Why fgs on my question, cowgirls? I'm asking because if this is a rugby union club I can tell OP exactly who she needs to report this to. I can't for league. But I'm sure there will be a Mner who can. So it will be helpful if she clarifies. That's all. I'm not casting aspersions!

Actually, OP, also helpful if you clarify which country of the UK you're in, as that can affect who the governing body is too. (Again, I'm not casting aspersions!)

SapphireStrange · 10/05/2017 10:49

I know laddish behaviour is to be expected on rugby tour

Bollocks to that.

This is appalling. Hoick him out of the club. Write to the head coach and anyone else who is involved (is it through school?) to tell them what happened and how unacceptable it is.

To pick just one point, what if one of the kids had been ill/had an accident and the adults were all too incapacitated to act responsibly?

hippoesque · 10/05/2017 10:52

Any chance you went to a holiday park in the new forest OP? My whole family, immediate and extended, are rugby fanatics and I know the adults tours are completely different to the junior sections for us.
I work at a busy holiday park and the last two years worth of junior rugby tours have been hell for us to work with! I could not believe the amount of drunk adults at check in, 4 in the afternoon and they were hammered. Didn't see any of them sober once and the kids were left to roam free. Bloody dangerous as it's an open site with road traffic at all times.
Unfortunately I think we're in a minority to think this is unacceptable. Which is a shame because it's very difficult to defend my boys passion for the sport when other clubs behave so badly!

innagazing · 10/05/2017 10:54

Totally out of order!
My daughter and her dance team sometimes do a trip abroad. The 'volunteer' parents are in fact designated chaperones to all the children on the trip and are not allowed to drink alcohol during the whole of the trip.
Parents who want to drink are not designated as chaperones, and get their accommodation paid for by the rest of the group.
The children range in age from about six to eighteen, and there is as strict understanding that none of them drink alcohol (or smoke) even the eighteen year olds, who are obviously adult, during the whole of the trip.
It works well, the kids are as safe as possible, and a good time is had by all.

plumstone · 10/05/2017 10:58

Thats appalling - would it be tolerated on a school swim team going away for a weekend competition???

I know a rugby coach who is involved with a Club and coaches all ages of boys rugby from 8/9 year olds to the adult teams, and light hearted teasing is one thing, bullying and under age drinking is completely different. Its one thing to "allow" a 17 year old a pint after a match, but 13/14 year olds thats forbidden and against the law! - I have been around rugby clubs for years, and there are hard drinking players, semi-professional drinking players and players that don't drink t all - all over the age of 18 and I have never seen anyone who doesn't drink be given a hard time, especially during training where as sportsmen, they tend to look after themselves!

cowgirlsareforever · 10/05/2017 11:00

Perhaps you should have made that clear Somerville. As things stand it looked like you were casting aspersions even when that wasn't your intention..

CricketRuntAndRashers · 10/05/2017 11:06

I remember behaviour like that when I was younger and some of the stories my father and my husband told me were actually honestly horrific.

My youngest half-brother had Judo training camp over Easter (he's a young teen) and it seems as if the club has really cleaned up their act as far as these things are concerned. I just think you can expect better than this nowadays!

The head coach has emailed me after I told him DS was really upset and I thought it had gone beyond banter and into bullying. He said it was just lads joking about.

That's not an excuse. That's what people tend to say about mysoginy as well... I hate the boys will be boys excuse. It's disgusting to expect so little from boys/young men and it only encourages the bad apples.

Yes, whilst I don't have a lot of experience with Rugby clubs (my DH used to do Rugby but my much younger half-brothers simply refused...) I must admit, I've come to expect better from sport's clubs. I don't think all clubs are like this.

CricketRuntAndRashers · 10/05/2017 11:11

I mean, honestly, if they tolerate this when the parents are present then what happens when they aren't?

"lads joking about" was what my teachers said when some boys thought it was fun to fill my bra with snow/ice. It's something I strongly associate with misogyny. And people expecting so little from boys... It doesn't seem like a good place for your son, not at all.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 10/05/2017 11:13

Well it wouldn't happen at my lad's football club. Rugby has historically had a big drinking culture though; the biggest dickheads at Uni were always on the rugby team.

Panicmode1 · 10/05/2017 11:19

Most of our (RFU) club was on tour last weekend - but that sort of behaviour would not have been tolerated at all. I would definitely move clubs and escalate the complaint. Having fun on tour is one thing, encouraging/condoning underage drinking and not taking responsbility for the children in their care, is not.

Wh0Kn0wsWhereTheTimeGoes · 10/05/2017 11:22

Somerville asked if it was league or union and immediately followed up with "I only know about union" and spoke about her experience. Perfectly clear that she was not casting aspersions.

I agree with everyone else, this is appalling and should not be happening within any junior sport or activity. I would be reporting to the governing body and looking for a new club.

Norland · 10/05/2017 11:33

Lots of incorrect comments on alcohol consumption and age here. It's only illegal to give a child under 5 alcohol.
Once they're past that age, then if it's at home, or other private premises, you can give your children booze.
If your 12/13 year old children were drinking alcohol on private premises, this is perfectly legal.

Aside from that; get in touch with your county rugby board for example :-

www.hampshirerugby.co.uk/archive/schools-rfu-4.html

and inform the board that safeguarding practices were not followed.
www.hampshirerugby.co.uk/archive/tours.html

Then ask the board to put you in touch with the secretary of a local club, where they do follow safeguarding practice.

BitOutOfPractice · 10/05/2017 11:38

I've been on a thread this week about how all football fans are thick and sad and all football players are "arrogant pricks". So my eyes have nearly rolled out of my head at this.

IME this kind of beer fuelled laddish behaviour is par for the course on rugby tours. But no way is it acceptable for boys that young. Yanbu

ginnybag · 10/05/2017 11:43

I was going to ask Union or League, too.

Not because of opinions about behaviour linked to one or the other, but because I know the RUFC would take an incredibly sim view of this type of behaviour and an even dimmer one of the Head Coach's reply to you.

I don't know anything at all about League, and what their governing body are like - or even if they have one in the same way.

OP, if the club is RUFC affiliated, escalate your complaint. If it's not, move your son to one that is. I promise you, not all clubs would behave like this.

NoLoveofMine · 10/05/2017 11:44

laddish behaviour is par for the course on rugby tours. But no way is it acceptable for boys that young.

"Laddish behaviour" isn't acceptable for boys or men of any age if it means what most people refer to it as meaning (misogyny).

SapphireStrange · 10/05/2017 11:46

laddish behaviour is par for the course on rugby tours. But no way is it acceptable for boys that young.

One has to ask: when and where, then, do you think the people on 'grown-up' rugby tours learn that this kind of behaviour is acceptable?

samG76 · 10/05/2017 11:52

Sapphire - i'm sure it's a class thing. League is played generally by working classes, so they wouldn't get away with a tenth of what is considered prankish or laddish behaviour when done by students, but would be considered harassment or sexual assault if done in any other circumstances.

Somerville · 10/05/2017 11:58

How come I get jumped on for asking 'league or union' yet you're not bothered by SamG being overtly disparaging about children who play RU, cowgirl Grin

BTW I really don't see what this has to do with your English class system. Though I'm Irish so what do I know.

OP Are you going to clarify what sport you are talking about? I will link the regulations for tours for Union and PM you contact details of who to complain to if you want?