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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be fed up with all the champagne socialists?

461 replies

winniemum · 05/05/2017 16:01

Just come back from school pick up and the conversation turned to politics for obvious reasons!
My DC is in year 6 and going to high school next year. Many of his friends are going to the local grammar school. Fine, no problem with that we didn't put him in for the GS exams.
However so many of the mums were upset that Lib Dem/ Labour had done badly in the local elections, whilst driving to school in their 4 by 4's, having driven from their £750K + houses.
It's just the contradiction, they are not prepared to spread their wealth or support the Tory policy of Grammar schools and harp on about how they all voted Lib/labour.
When I asked one mum why she was sending her DC to Grammar school if she didn't agree with anything the Tory's stood for, I got, 'Oh that was one of our most difficult decisions, we thought very long and hard about that one, but you know....' No I still don't know as she couldn't explain why that was OK.

OP posts:
user1471545174 · 07/05/2017 19:59

People can vote however they wish, jellyfrizz, I am not a collectivist so have no interest in coercion.

Dapplegrey2 · 07/05/2017 20:01

I must have missed the bit where Labour voters choosing to privately educate their kids was OK.
Harrylime presumably you thought it ok even though you vote Labour.

supermoon100 · 07/05/2017 20:05

This is not about wealthy people voting labour as some posters seem to imply. There is nothing wrong with that at all. This is about wealthy labour voters sending their kids to private school because they're too scared to use the local state system. That is a sad state of affairs. Unless you want your child to be a brain surgeon or a top humanitarian lawyer, the local state system will usually suffice! Even then I am sure there are a few state educated brain surgeons knocking around!

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 20:07

I think it is very difficult to identify with all policies proposed by any given political party. I'm not convinced people carefully read through each party manifesto, weigh up the pros and cons, and then come to a carefully considered opinion.

So just because someone votes Labour (or LibDem or Tory) doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with everything that party stands for. I wouldn't assume a Tory voter necessarily supported grammar schools or that a Labour voter must want to abolish private schools. It's simply too simplistic.

I read the manifestos for Labour, Conservatives, LibDem and Green before the last set of European elections. The most striking thing was how many errors and inaccuracies they contained.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 20:07

I think it is very difficult to identify with all policies proposed by any given political party. I'm not convinced people carefully read through each party manifesto, weigh up the pros and cons, and then come to a carefully considered opinion.

So just because someone votes Labour (or LibDem or Tory) doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with everything that party stands for. I wouldn't assume a Tory voter necessarily supported grammar schools or that a Labour voter must want to abolish private schools. It's simply too simplistic.

I read the manifestos for Labour, Conservatives, LibDem and Green before the last set of European elections. The most striking thing was how many errors and inaccuracies they contained.

katronfon · 07/05/2017 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 20:20

I don't think some of the politicians or their aides read or agree with the manifesto of their own party sometimes.

I'm looking at you Philip Hammond.

jellyfrizz · 07/05/2017 20:24

I don't really mean how our decisions are made and/or how we are influenced...I mean what percentage of the population are driven by the different drivers...

Isn't that how influence using big data works? By finding out what people's drivers are and then targeting those points?

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 20:30

I let self-interest guide me when choosing a school for my DC. I'm completely unapologetic about this. They go to the schools I felt were the best fit for them (DC2 goes to a large, academically selective school; DC1 goes to a small, non-selective school which excels at sport/drama).

I don't vote in the same manner. I'm looking at a much wider, less self-centred perspective when deciding how to vote. I'll almost certainly be worse off personally if Labour win as I'll be paying more tax (and maybe facing a hike in school fees). But the community I belong to will be worse off under a Tory government, and the vulnerable people in society will likely get less help.

Furthermore, I live in a Tory/Labour marginal because I didn't move to a village near the 'good' state schools. Which means my vote is also influenced by the need to vote tactically (voting LibDem or Green would make the Tory candidate more likely to win).

Tapandgo · 07/05/2017 20:31

supermoon there are some people who have this misfortune to live in the catchment area of failing schools - that is the real scandal. What real choice have they got to give their kids the best life chances.

Governments should not be starving schools of resources, should not be continually interfering with the curriculum and exam system and should not be driving teachers to exhaustion with their endless targets. Poor teachers should be shown the door.

Money is pouring into free schools and away from state secondaries. You can't blame anyone from sending their kids to grammar schools if that is part of the school system they have in their area.

Some people pay for private education, private health care and private dentists. They are paying twice as they pay their taxes for the state schools and NHS. I've got a private dentist because I couldn't get an NHS one - that doesn't mean I don't want a strong and effective NHS.

usernamealreadytaken · 07/05/2017 20:37

Moving I came from a strongly socialist background and although I have ostensibly pinned my colours to another mast, I still retain some socialist leanings. Perhaps if more people admitted that political leaning is not always black and white, we might actually achieve a political system that would engage more people.

bookworm80 · 07/05/2017 20:44

I think champagne socialism is a good thing. To me it means working hard and having nice things but still paying fair taxes to make sure that there is good health care, education and welfare for all.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 20:47

That's true username although I think the lack of clarity confuses and alienates people. Black and white is clear and understandable - when it gets more uncertain people worry.

Does anyone remember the suggest of the Government of the Talents or something very similar? The idea was people would join the government due to their expertise rather than their political leanings. Didn't even get off the blocks which I think was a bit of a shame.

Eolian · 07/05/2017 20:51

Just because you have to live in the system you're in, that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for a system you think is better and fairer. There would be little hope of ever having a better, more egalitarian government if only the virtuous and poor were only allowed to vote for them.

As for grammar schools, if you live in a place with a grammar school system you should send your child to the school most appropriate to their ability. To do otherwise will not help abolish grammar schools, it will just disadvantage your child and be unhelpful to the people trying to teach them. I went to a grammar school, am a teacher and am anti grammar schools. I also own a 4x4 and do not vote tory. Hadn't realised that wasn't allowed.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 20:55

The Ministry of All the Talents was during the reign of George III (after the death of Pitt).

Sorry - a bit off track. Just thought I'd throw that bit of trivia in!

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 20:57

I was thinking more of the thing Gordon Brown was suggesting Grin

Trouble was that nobody wanted to play with Gordon.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 20:59

I've looked it up. It was called the Government Of All The Talents... known as GOAT.

katronfon · 07/05/2017 21:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 21:01

Poor Gordon - it's really difficult to argue that you had nothing to do with the economy going tits up when you've been chancellor for the last couple of parliaments.

I bet he regrets not calling a snap general election when he had the chance.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 21:11

I bet Gordon regrets a lot.

Apparently he is publishing his memoir in the Autumn. I bet it's riveting.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 21:14

Do you know who I do wish would fuck off now? Tony started-an-illegal-war-and-didn't-fix-the-middle-East-like-claimed-he-would-the-arrogant-bastard Blair. To give him his full name.

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 21:25

Oh yes - I really dislike Blair. I remember how much I enjoyed voting for Ken Livingston when he stood as an independent for mayor of London and won. The fact that Blair didn't want him to have the job made it all the sweeter Grin

velvetcandy · 07/05/2017 21:26

Maybe these people have done well for themselves because they have had free school dinners, free milk, free health service, free education and now they are paying higher taxes and putting back in to the system so younger people today can be supported and so on and so on

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/05/2017 21:34

I didn't mind him so much at the time (except for the illegal war business) it was all the stuff after he had quit like the revolting detail of Leo's conception that was needlessly shared or the arrogance of his self-appointment as saviour of the Middle East and the shady property business.

Now he keeps popping up like the bad fairy to try and spoil things and I want to tell him off like when my 8yo comes along and spoils the little one's game:

You had your turn Tony, stop spoiling it for everyone else!

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 07/05/2017 21:47

velvet - I did benefit from all of those things. When I was DS's age my dad was unemployed and we were surviving on benefits. Neither of my parents went to university (my mum left school at 15, my dad left after A-levels and did an apprenticeship) - they both grew up in council houses. I passed my 11+, went to grammar school, then university (degree & PhD), and now I work in a senior managerial role in a multinational company although my job will be moving abroad in 2019 thanks to Brexit, but that's another story. I don't mind paying taxes to give someone else the same opportunities. It would be mean spirited to pull up the ladder behind me.