AIBU to be fed up with all the champagne socialists?

[winniemum]

Just come back from school pick up and the conversation turned to politics for obvious reasons!
My DC is in year 6 and going to high school next year. Many of his friends are going to the local grammar school. Fine, no problem with that we didn't put him in for the GS exams.
However so many of the mums were upset that Lib Dem/ Labour had done badly in the local elections, whilst driving to school in their 4 by 4's, having driven from their £750K + houses.
It's just the contradiction, they are not prepared to spread their wealth or support the Tory policy of Grammar schools and harp on about how they all voted Lib/labour.
When I asked one mum why she was sending her DC to Grammar school if she didn't agree with anything the Tory's stood for, I got, 'Oh that was one of our most difficult decisions, we thought very long and hard about that one, but you know....' No I still don't know as she couldn't explain why that was OK.

My DH and I are better off under the Tories, we pay less taxes and earn more money. I think that their policies increase the division between rich and poor and unfairly target the most vulnerable in our society however, so I have never (and would never) vote for them.

We live in a nice house, in a nice area and earn enough money to have a good pot of savings but I don't see why, according to your logic, we must also be wankers who only care about ourselves?

We (and plenty of other people we know) do plenty for charity absolutely because we want to help others and 'spread the wealth'. Perhaps these people you're dismissing so readily do likewise, I doubt they'd advertise it to you if they did, as you do seem a bit judgey.

Oh, and we're hoping my DS2 gets into the local grammar school - not because we want to increase social division but because he's bored and under stimulated at his primary. Again, why does this make us champagne socialists?

Opposing grammar schools while sending your child to one is a bit Diane Abbott...

I don't oppose them, I don't agree with how their admissions are run but not the concept of an 'advanced, highly-academic school'. We can't afford private and the state education so far has proved to be a bit unsuitable.

I wasn't really responding to your post there, more earlier responses to the OP. But there is good evidence that grammar schools do increase social division, and dismissing that so easily, while publicly declaring left of centre politics, seems inconsistent.

I am a strong supporter of Comprehensives, but if I lived in a Grammar School area I would probably put my DC in for the test and send them to Grammar. I had friends whose parents wouldn't send them to grammar on "principle" and they found secondary school very challenging. I'm not sue I could put my child through that.
On the other hand I'm not totally against private schools and believe in choice.
Oh and we don't spread our wealth, because that needs to be done via taxes and provide support for all. Which is why undercutting the NHS is so dangerous as some of us might be able to "survive" without - well at least if that disastrous health condition didn't hit.
I would happily pay more taxes for more benefits/more of a safety net. Oh and we do give time and money to charity.

DH is a high earner, me not so much. We have a large house, I have a 4x4 albeit a really scruffy one and DH has a smart car. We couldn't send our DC to a grammar (there are none where we are) but did move into a specific catchment area for their secondary school.

We can vote however we want. By voting for the two parties you have mention in OP we are voting to spread our wealth around. Not all better off people mind paying taxes, not to say anyone loves them but we are prepared to do that to live in a civilised society where everyone has a basic safety net and decent schooling. We will be better off under the tories but do not believe that is best for the country. I am unsure why you would feel we had to vote for them.

I don't know if this is an acceptable or informed attitude to have, but when we moved to the area we live in I was pleased that it was an affluent area but was Lib Dem. I thought it was the best of both worlds. That people were 'allowed' to be well off without feeling like they needed to trample over other people to be it.

Unfortunately that didn't last very long and it turned blue in 2015. There are hopes that it will turn yellow again next month.

The grammars schools thing is tough. I fundamentally disagree with them for all the evidence based reasons already stated. But they may be the best option for my child [theoretically, we don't have any grammars where I live] so do I sacrifice my child's opportunity on the bonfire of my principles? Or do I sacrifice my principles on the bonfire of my own self interest?

For me it comes down to how much of an objection do I have and whether my participating is collusion in the system or resigned acceptance of the system.

The important question for me would be "will sending my child to the grammar school change anything about the system that is the problem?". No it will not.

Can you send your child to a grammar school while actively campaigning and lobbying for their abolishment? Yes you can.

Also wanted to add that all the evidence is that grammar schools are hopeless for promoting social mobility so I that is something I have no interest in supporting. I would like all kids to have a decent education.

Movingonup - you expressed it far better than I could!

Well of course people do. But I think your argument is fundamentally weakened if you do. And conservative voters in areas with no grammar schools would be quite justified in calling you out on your hypocrisy for using the system you apparently don't want for your own child, while trying to deny them the same opportunity for theirs.

And you would put your child in for the test and send them to the grammar if they passed. Which, if you are a champagne socialist they are more likely to do, of course, then if you are a disadvantaged socialist.

If there were great schools for every child the grammar issue would be a non-starter.

I don't know why people think grammars are a solution to the problem of poor educational outcomes. Logically it makes no sense.

Liberal Democrats definitely aren't socialists. Not sure they're even democrats with the position they've taken on Brexit.

We all know most people tend to live by two sets of rules. One for others and one for themselves. Dianne Abbott is a classic example of this when it came to the issue of schooling. The mum you mention who claimed it was one the most difficult decisions she'd made is another. Who isn't a hypocrite sometimes though?

Notice the op has wound us all up and then disappeared?

I'm not sure which party they're working for

We are high earners but absolutely all for paying more tax and supporting the welfare state. Just because someone earns a lot/has 'stuff', doesn't mean they should automatically vote tory as some of us are more than willing to share wealth through paying tax which will then hopefully be spent on the right things by the govt. I don't agree with the fundamental tory ideology so I am never going to vote that way.

I'm more of a reasonably-priced-cava socialist (well centrist), but I vote for governments who force all of us to share our wealth more equally. I don't want to take everything away from richer people and I don't want to share everything we have - but I do want people who need extra help, poorer people and disabled people and children and people who've had hard lives and people with low level I'll health and carers and everyone - to have basic fucking dignity and income and not be hounded and forced to beg for scraps from Tories.

"Personally I think we need all the socialists we can get. Champagne, gin, tee-total ..."

This is isn't an issue we have had to face but my main issue with grammar schools is not grammar schools but secondary moderns. I believe they provided worse education and life chances for the children in them. If you provide a better level of education for a few (with better funding I assume?)the majority have a worse education. You would be an odd parent who knowingly gave your child a worse education.

I don't see why you can't provide your child with all you can while wanting other children to have good opportunities too. So I would think you could send your child to a grammar school while believing another system would be better.

YANBU OP, it makes them hypocritical.

That they can't recognise it just makes them a bit dim.

I vote labour and my son goes to grammar school

User, can you explain it to those you deem dim please?

I'm hoping for a well thought out argurment :)

LadySal is right, there are such people as centrists, you have to be heavily on the left or the right😉

If they can't even walk their own walk, why on earth do they imagine anyone else wants to?

Ahh missing a don't, really need to stop mumsnetting and get kids to swimming!