AIBU to be fed up with all the champagne socialists?

[winniemum]

Just come back from school pick up and the conversation turned to politics for obvious reasons!
My DC is in year 6 and going to high school next year. Many of his friends are going to the local grammar school. Fine, no problem with that we didn't put him in for the GS exams.
However so many of the mums were upset that Lib Dem/ Labour had done badly in the local elections, whilst driving to school in their 4 by 4's, having driven from their £750K + houses.
It's just the contradiction, they are not prepared to spread their wealth or support the Tory policy of Grammar schools and harp on about how they all voted Lib/labour.
When I asked one mum why she was sending her DC to Grammar school if she didn't agree with anything the Tory's stood for, I got, 'Oh that was one of our most difficult decisions, we thought very long and hard about that one, but you know....' No I still don't know as she couldn't explain why that was OK.

I mentioned vouchers earlier in this thread or another and got shot down but i think it's a great idea. We need to ensure children especially are protected snd well fed. Child nutrition is something i'm passionate about. We need to educate and i'm sorry restrict families where a welfare culture has grown. I exclude the disabled before anyone flames me. I know however there are the truly disabled. Most of the disabled can work but i believe should also be dupported if that work is part time or lower paid due to their (genuine) condition.

I believe we should support our vulnerable in society to improve and move on rather than continue as they are. Childcate allowances to get parents back into education so they can work would be a great idea. Education about money & nutrition is necessary but life on handouts should not be easy as that leaves no motivation for change.

I disagree agree with the robin hood mentality of taking from the rich (who arent always that well off) to give to those not making efforts to move forwards in life but i would always support those wanting to change their situation.

Willow tree - or we could ensure there was equity of opportunity, fund schools, sure start centres, libraries, local authority instrumental lessons, youth clubs and adult education to enable children to do well. We could reject the grammar schools that support wider polarisation of opportunity. We could use VAT from independent school fees to fund improvements to state school facilities. We could offer good sports coaching to state school pupils and ensure universities took a proportionate number of state pupils. Independently educated students could pay higher tuition fees.

Crumbs equality of opportunity is an abstract and everybody's measure would be different, so how would we know when this had been achieved? We need to work towards providing appropriate opportunities, and find ways to engage and to motivate individuals who may come from an environment where they are not supported and encouraged to access those opportunities. Funding LA instrument lessons is pointless when parents aren't on board (or worse).

Universities should offer places based on merit; how does equality come from gaining a place due to where you live rather than how talented you are? Excluding students who have the talent because of where they come from is equally wrong.

Food vouchers to ensure that children and adults do not go without food is something measurable and would make a demonstrable difference. That could actually make a huge difference in pupils being able to access education - there are so many studies showing that children behave and learn better when they are properly fed.

Disagree completely username. Equality of opportunity is something to strive for. Accepting 'talent' is not necessarily the highest IB score when you've had every possible privilege from an early age. Most of my younger ones friends got very high IB/A level scores and are now at top universities. They definitely are not as bright or hardworking as some of the young people my eldest two were educated alongside in a comprehensive. It's about differentiation to allow those with less advantages to have an equal chance of getting into OB or RG. Absolutely it should be on merit. Three Bs at A level for a Somali youngster who arrived speaking no English in year 10 after escaping a war torn country is a far, far higher achievement than my daughter's Eton educated boyfriend who got three As. The boyfriend and daughter are lovely but success has been handed to them on a plate.
Funding LA instrumental lessons gives poorer kids more opportunity to excel and develop a broader achievement than GCSEs. I know several who have gone on to study music at RA or university. They would not have that chance now funding has been cut. My own son learned Bassoon at a time we couldn't have afforded 10k for the instrument. My eldest has grade 8 distinction on violin because she learned at state funded Saturday school from age 4. She played County Yourh Orchestra which helped boost cv for medical school applications. It definitely helps equalise opportunity.
Education is proven to be the greatest equaliser of all. I would not now be well off had my teachers not recognised and nurtured my ability despite coming from an incredibly poor background. We have to invest in future generations.

Vouchers are just a nasty stigmatising punishment for the poor. School breakfast clubs and free lunches are better as they can be accessed by all and can't be sold on the black market to buy alcohol and drugs. That said most poor mothers try desperately to provide for their children. I recall my mother 'not being hungry' more times than not to ensure we wee at least fed.

My children work very very hard indeed. I don't think the fact you go to a state grammar or posh comp (or even a private school) should be held against you in diminishing the effort behind the grades you achieve. Plenty of children in private schools get low grades because they don't work hard or they are not particularly clever.

Vouchers for food might help with those families who are a bit chaotic - it is not that the benefits themselves are too low to afford 2 meals a day but that the family has a whole range of problems which are difficult to address which mean the money does not last until the next payment.

However I do agree that most parents do try very hard to ensure their children are fed.

By the way for those who like I am are remainers (and lots of us Tories as well as Labour supporters are remainers) do be aware that May's team are choosing the new Tory MPs in large part because they are remainer mindset thankfully. Although we hvae to leave the EU because of the vote and we respect the will of the people this is still yet another reason to vote Conservative. A lot of people are wavering and uncertain. Do at the very least go out there and vote even if you are still not sure on the morning. It would be good to have a very high turn out.

My children work very very hard indeed. I don't think the fact you go to a state grammar or posh comp (or even a private school) should be held against you in diminishing the effort behind the grades you achieve. Plenty of children in private schools get low grades because they don't work hard or they are not particularly clever

Are you really that naive that you think private school doesn't give your children an incredible advantage?

Whether people pay for education is up to them but I can't stand this ignorance about the inequality it perpetuates.

By the way for those who like I am are remainers (and lots of us Tories as well as Labour supporters are remainers) do be aware that May's team are choosing the new Tory MPs in large part because they are remainer mindset thankfully.

Really?

Crumbs I take on board your passion for education, and agree to an extent, but my original post did explicitly say places should be awarded on merit with the inference being that exam results are not the be all and end all - merit encompasses an individual's ability to communicate and demonstrate their skills and abilities, and the university interview process should weed out those who can purely pass an exam and show that as their only way in.

Again, coming from a background of poverty myself, I believe that breakfast clubs and FSM do not address the issue of hungry children who are too late for breakfast or absent completely, and it is recognised that children who benefit from FSM fare poorly in school holidays as there is no provision for those relying on school for their only decent meal. A mixture of school provision and food vouchers would go some way to addressing childhood hunger.

In no way taking anything away from your hardworking and bright DCs but I would take from your post that you are Ina reasonably middle class (for want of a better term) situation, where music and art are encouraged, which is fantastic and your DCs are very lucky to have come from such a supportive environment. If I had come home as a child with an instrument worth £10k, my DF would have sold it to buy Guinness and tobacco. Although not all parents in poverty would act in this way, children who live with parents suffering from addiction who already spend their benefit money on anything other than food for their DCs, would not benefit but would have further opportunities to be stigmatised. I like to see the good in people, but as this thread has mentioned several times, people are inherently selfish and I would add that none more so than addicts, and unfortunately a percentage of children grow up in these situations. For every bright musical virtuoso lifted out of a background of poverty by music, there will be fifty left behind hungry - I know where I'd rather my taxes go; music is a luxury, food is not.

Some children don't work at private, grammar and state schools and don't get good exam results. It's just a bit annoying when the very hard work children who get good exam results put in is then suggested not to be because they put in a load of slog (I have children doing public exams at the moment). It is not a question of picking a posh comp or grammar (or private school ) and suddenly the children will get high exam results. There is loads of work the children have to put in and if people say ah your A grades were just bought and fiddled that is very unfair on the children.

However I certainly agree that there are unfairnesses in that some children are born into homes which are chaotic. Mind you some parents are drunk every day when children get home from private schools or are abused at home - money is not necessarily a protection against family disfunction.

Music - singing is free, no expensive instruments there. In fact a lot of children used to find a lot of peace and sanctuary from poor homes in their local C of E church and in the choir although again that requires a parent to take you there and wake you up on a weekend morning.

Mind you my teenager earlier this morning said if his A levels are bad it will be because I never cook him a meal ever and he does 100% of his own cooking. We were teasing each other... I think it's a good thing he knows how to cook particularly if he gets into university. If that is all he has to complain about as I said...... lucky boy.

jellyfrizz I think the poster was referring to the Times article referenced below?

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/863042787423510528

Whilst I agree that this is good news.it doesn't alter the fact that I dislike many other Conservative policies, the re-introduction of secondary modern schools for one! Electing a Conservative MP to limit the damage done by other Conservative MPS seems an odd reason to vote Conservative even if it is being advocated by David Cameron.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39890248