AIBU to be fed up with all the champagne socialists?

[winniemum]

Just come back from school pick up and the conversation turned to politics for obvious reasons!
My DC is in year 6 and going to high school next year. Many of his friends are going to the local grammar school. Fine, no problem with that we didn't put him in for the GS exams.
However so many of the mums were upset that Lib Dem/ Labour had done badly in the local elections, whilst driving to school in their 4 by 4's, having driven from their £750K + houses.
It's just the contradiction, they are not prepared to spread their wealth or support the Tory policy of Grammar schools and harp on about how they all voted Lib/labour.
When I asked one mum why she was sending her DC to Grammar school if she didn't agree with anything the Tory's stood for, I got, 'Oh that was one of our most difficult decisions, we thought very long and hard about that one, but you know....' No I still don't know as she couldn't explain why that was OK.

I'm rather confused by this thread now; if you are a socialist but you send your children to private school or seek private healthcare then that is okay because you are forced to do so by circumstances but if you vote conservative and send your children to private school or use private healthcare, then you should be ashamed of yourself for not making the system better for everyone. Hmmmmm

I am saying they should stick to their principles, I just dont like his and think they are based in cloud cuckoo land.

Oh right, well that's fine, it's just that he can't stick to his principles and not stick to his principles at the same time. Vote for him if you like his principles, don't if you don't.

I think I must have missed that latter bit username.

if you vote conservative and send your children to private school or use private healthcare, then you should be ashamed of yourself for not making the system better for everyone.

Oh, did I miss a page or something where someone said that?

OP - lazy and ill informed thinking. Why can't someone who has an expensive property and lives in an area where grammar schools are part of the education system vote labour?
I went to a comp, lived in one of the most notorious and dangerous housing estates in the UK in overcrowded conditions. I worked hard, went to university (on a grant) got to the top of my profession and now live in an wealthy rural area.
My principles remain the same and I want a party in government that seeks equality for all, not privilege for the few.
I vote Labour - but think Corbyn should stand down - and await a regrowth of a more electable party.

There's still time for it all to go horribly wrong katronfon

I am genuinely interested in the debate and I'm interested in counter and opposing arguments. I'm not so keen on blanket statements or those of blind faith.

This is why I get tax relief:
www.gov.uk/income-tax-reliefs/charity-donations-tax-relief

Given I pay tens of thousands of pounds in tax every year (about £30k excluding NI for 2016/17), I figure that I already do my bit to fund the NHS. The couple of hundred pounds I get back in tax relief really isn't much in the grand scheme of things. And I only get it back because I've spent some of my taxed income supporting charity (I've still paid tax on the money I donate, just at a lower tax rate).

Sorry moving and jelly, I have taken the fact that those who have professed to being wealthy (incl DA) and choosing PE for their DCs was being defended. I was not quoting directly, merely surmising that on the usual Tory bashing threads those choosing Torres PE were vilified. Not in this thread, we are actually talking and not mudslinging - wouldn't it be wonderful if all conversations could go this way, whether we agree on points or not? Open non-aggressive conversations are far more conducive to getting your point across

I think the original premis of the thread was that rich people who vote Labour/LibDem are hypocritical. It seemed to be implied that they should stop this unreasonable behaviour and vote Tory instead. Which seems very odd to me, but there we go.

I must have missed the bit where Labour voters choosing to privately educate their kids was OK.

That's an interesting point username and one I think gets to the heart of the matter. Tories who do typical Tory things like privately educating their children, using complicated Tax avoidance schemes etc etc make sense. We can point and them and say "this person is a Tory because he does these things and believes in XYZ". Equally we [society] are comfortable with your Labour trade unionist who sends their children to the local comp and doesn't earn enough to need to do a tax return, because we can point and say "he's a Labour man because he does these things and believes in ABC". Both easy to identify and both easily motivated by immediate self interest. We can also say "I find your view abhorrent/stupid/ignorant therefore you are abhorrent/stupid/ignorant" because the two things are intrinsically linked.

The trouble comes when we deviate from the simplistic. People who are just about getting by and working all the hours they can voting for a party who would cut their benefits - why? People who benefit from the current status quo who want to change it - why?

It all comes down to ideology and belief about what will be better for you and yours and ideologies and beliefs can be independent of personal situation. That can be difficult for those working at a "you did, so you are" level of understanding of human nature and behaviour.

🥂 chin chin

This is a nice political thread for once!! I actually think if you're Labour and don't want the local school it's more "socialist" to go private because you aren't taking places from the locals and the state will have extra money from your child opting out. And it could be cheaper given that in London a good school can add 200k onto prices.

By sending the DC private, I also stayed within my local community rather than moving elsewhere. Which means I still spend money in my local corner shop, and still care about the local services here (rather than in some gentrified neighbourhood).

There are people with a social conscience voting for all (maybe nearly all) parties, because they believe that overall they'll be better for the country and a better country is a better place to live.

Yes, I think most people vote this way (whichever party they vote for) don't they? To make the country a better place.

I'm not sure. I think quite a lot vote considering only "this is best for me right now".

I do also understand that not everyone votes for personal gain. That was my point.

But it's not about people benefiting from the status quo and wanting to change it.

By using it, they are endorsing it, so their "wanting to change it" rings hollow.

That's not indicative of a failure by others to understand non-linear human behaviour. It's just a cop out!

If you DISAPPROVE of something to a degree where you would see it abolished, then endorsing it by your patronage or to boost your children's prospects is wrong.

That might be true is they were paying for it user or if good schools aren't oversubscribed. The simple fact remains that choosing to send your child to a less good school doesn't make that new school better or stop bad schools being bad schools. It also doesn't prevent the state from changing the system once your child is in it. It's a benign act.

It's not the same as having a militantly green agenda and then buying a massive gas guzzling 4 x 4 because that choice is actively harmful and contributes to the problem.

Ha ha kat

I'd love to actually know how people make their decisions

Have you heard of Cambridge Analytica?

I don't agree it's benign to subscribe to any system you profess to despise, and would see abolished. Opportunist, maybe.

If you DISAPPROVE of something to a degree where you would see it abolished, then endorsing it by your patronage or to boost your children's prospects is wrong.

People vote how they think is right even if you think it is wrong