To wish the EU would stop being so arsey with us!

[GreatAuntPrudish]

Juncker is an utter prick - leaking details of the dinner at No.10.
Then there's Barnier, Hollande and other EU officials warning us how ugly it's going to get.

Poland and France wanting to extract every last billion out of us!

They're playing into May's hands - giving her the opportunity to look like the Boudicca of the 21st century when she is actually an utterly useless PM.

I wish they'd show some consideration for the 48%

I'm a Remainer - still want to stay in EU - but it's starting to piss me off so there's little chance the leavers who were starting to wobble will want to stay now.

The Daily Mail are relishing it

• our policies

Railgunner1
just secure the rights of the Eu citizens in the UK and it'll be much easier for everybody

Unless you are a UK citizen living in the EU.

Just wanted to jump in to say that I voted remain and love the EU. I'd like a United States of Europe! I do recognise that I am the Nigel Farage of remainers though.

I love the EU. I love the fact that, for all its faults, it has been the driving force in the longest period of peace that Europe has EVER known. I love the fact that I can visit other countries with a minimum of faff. I love the fact that it has given a leg up in terms of infrastructure funding to a lot of deprived areas in all its member states. I love little practical things like it forcing all member states to sell electrical goods with the plugs already wired on. I love it capping phone roaming charges. I love it taking on rapacious multinational companies like Microsoft. I love feeling that I'm part of the heritage not just of Shakespeare but of Goethe, Raphael, Moliere.

Yes, there are things I'd change about it, but I still love it.

I had a friend that essentially turned round and said "fuck you" to our group and left.

We're a bit arsey with them too tbh.

I also love the EU. I love being European and having European heritage. I love working with people of other nationalities and having so much in common. I am Irish and can see how EU membership has been an enormous force for good. I love how my family officially has three nationalities but we all have the same burgundy passport.

I love how the EU gets countries (different as they are) to try to work together to solve problems, rather than the easy route of scapegoating foreigners for all ills.

I love how EU politicians (Merkel, Tusk) seem like sane grown-ups.

It's juncker saying that English is losing its relevance in Europe

Um, it will be, as we are Leaving. On top of all our other requirements, are we really also going to insist that 27 other countries use a language that is not official for any of them? Or else they're bullying us as a non-member?

The EU are demonstrating their democratic deficit by their recent pronouncements. The reality is that there is no one for May to negotiate with on behalf of the EU.

If she talks to Merkel and Macron (in all probability), it will be seen as a stitch up by the other 25 members. On the other hand it is embarrassing to tell an elected head of government to talk to civil servants.

The whole rhetoric on both sides is appalling at the moment and could lead to dire results for all. There is little to be gained from either side by appealing tough. The EU should want us as much 'in' as possible in order to continue trading with us and to extract the maximum financial benefit. We should want to be as much 'out' as possible whilst retaining as much trading access as possible. In addition both sides desire military and intelligence co-operation.

There is a middle ground here to be had by good negotiators where both sides can tell their constituencies that they have won.

'Um, it will be, as we are Leaving. On top of all our other requirements, are we really also going to insist that 27 other countries use a language that is not official for any of them? Or else they're bullying us as a non-member?'

Really, what other language is well known by educated people in all 27 remaining countries?

Really, what other language is well known by educated people in all 27 remaining countries?

Well, that's a clinching argument.

Naturally, nobody educated anywhere else in Europe or indeed the world, knows any other language than English. Therefore, bullying and punishment.

And British English, of course. There's no way the rest of the world might prefer American English or international business English.

Arf Prosecco - totally agree.

'Naturally, nobody educated anywhere else in Europe or indeed the world, knows any other language than English. Therefore, bullying and punishment.'

Who on earth said that? Talk about a straw man argument.

'And British English, of course. There's no way the rest of the world might prefer American English or international business English.'

Was there a comment about what kind of English or is this just a random comment?

Who on earth said that? Talk about a straw man argument.

Well, what was your argument then?

TheElements,

Read what I said carefully. It is not remotely the equivalent of what you argued against.

I asked what language other than English would all remaining members be comfortable communicating in. You replied about people knowing languages other than English (which I do actually know!).

I asked what language other than English would all remaining members be comfortable communicating in.

Ah, you meant it as a real and not rhetorical question?

The EU is a union with 27 countries to protect in all of this.
The UK has done so much bitching and tantrums in recent years and it's only got worse with Brexit.

People voted to leave. They didn't vote for what Brexit would actually look like. In fact, you could take 10 Brexit voters and they'd have different reasons and different visions of Brexit.

It always makes me laugh how in thr eyes of SOME (usually the more moronic!) Brexit fans whinge about wanting parliamentary sovereignty but spit their dummy out and scream when anyone suggests any accountability on May and cry "bullies" when the EU acts like, well a UNION in negotiations.

I voted remain. But now we're here we need the best deal possible, work with moderate Brexit supporters and to hold the hard Brexiters to account.

It's daft to think that English won't remain the common language, although that's prob more due to American cultural influences than ours!

He's just making a snide point. Because he is a total fucking titrash.

TheElements,

'Ah, you meant it as a real and not rhetorical question?'

Yes, indeed. Now, would you like to answer it please?

Yes, indeed. Now, would you like to answer it please?

Certainly. IME amongst the educated Europeans I have known, they speak multiple languages with comfortable fluency - it's very rarely only English as their second language (and when they speak English, it's just as likely to be American or international business English). Often, they've spoken fluent French for example.

I would imagine the likelihood of fluency in multiple European languages to be even higher amongst those working for EU departments.

Or we could simply agree with Prosecco's incisive analysis of the situation.

TheElements,

I have worked with many many educated Europeans of all varieties and, whilst their language skills are far better than ours, very few spoke more than one additional language with any degree of fluency (except the products of polylingual households).

And even if they do speak several languages the overlap is likely to be English.

Do you really think you would comfortably see 20 diplomats from all the countries of Europe speaking comfortably in German? Or French?

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. You know the only 'global' language is English. And, as for trying to divide English into subsets, that is pretty laughable. If you speak English fluently, I suspect you can comfortably speak all three of the above mentioned. I have never failed to participate in a conversation because I failed to understand American English. International Business English is not really even a language, it is a series of shortcuts to enable those who have not really mastered proper English (of either the English or American variety) to be able to do business with one another.

Do you really think you would comfortably see 20 diplomats from all the countries of Europe speaking comfortably in German? Or French?

Dunno. The proof will be in the pudding, won't it? Were there howls of uncomprehending outrage from others in the hall during Drunker's speech in French?

You know the only 'global' language is English.

Totally agree with you. If you'd said it was absurd for the United Nations, or the international scientific community, to eschew the use of English, I'd be right there with you.

Thing is - the UK is the only current EU member which has English as its official language. So, we are concluding that the EU must go forward using a language official to none of them after our departure, due to the apparent impossibility of the European diplomatic community being able to rustle up some folk fluent in, say, German.

TheElements,

Frankly, what language the EU does business in is, rightly, their business. However, if they decide anything but English, I will eat my ancient French dictionary including the cover.

Was 'Drunker' a Freudian slip?! :)

Frankly, what language the EU does business in is, rightly, their business. However, if they decide anything but English, I will eat my ancient French dictionary including the cover.

In actual fact, I don't give a shiny shit whether they choose to use Mandarin or Ancient Greek. I do, however, find it hilarious that certain people are up in arms at this perceived insult to "our" language and apparently, by extension, our continued vital importance to an organisation that we are desperate to Leave, whilst flicking 'V' signs at them.

Was 'Drunker' a Freudian slip?!

It was entirely deliberate

Thing is - the UK is the only current EU member which has English as its official language.

I'd be very upset by that if I was Irish.

I'd be very upset by that if I was Irish

They chose Gaelic