Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

999 replies

Placeanditspatrons · 30/04/2017 07:51

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

OP posts:
Alyosha · 04/05/2017 14:37

BMP if I were PM I would put you in charge of NHS Breastfeeding policy :D

Alyosha · 04/05/2017 14:38

Sunshine I actually think you're wrong.

Estimates & studies say around 15% of women will be unable to exclusively breastfeed.

blaeberry · 04/05/2017 15:08

Yes sunshine your right itsmine could have breast fed by not taking cytotoxic drugs - at least she could have done until she died then it would have been rather tricky... You are being rather ridiculous to suggest someone in a high dependency unit fighting to live has any real choice.

It is also not just the woman's choice either. I chose to breast feed but my dc3 could not. This was pointed out to me by breast-feeding counsellors on day 3. He struggled to learn to feed at all and we should have been referred to speech and language therapy. Several years later I know why.

PlinkyTheFairyWitch · 04/05/2017 15:23

Quite right blaeberry - I didn't make the choice not to BF, DS did. In t'olden days I suppose he would have died (but would anyway as complicated birth) so I'll be forever grateful for safe, nutritious formula and a healthy kid.

I did make the choice to stop expressing at 6 weeks, after my milk never came in properly due to crappy machines and/or hormones (who knows?) and I nearly killed myself with worry and guilt over it. That's why I find blithe 'of course all women can BF' statements so problematic, patronising and offensive. It's not always that easy.

tiktok · 04/05/2017 16:38

Aloysha - I don't understand why you cannot see that excl bf does not cause dehydration. Effective exclusive BF means the baby is well-hydrated, well-fed, normal blood sugars, gaining weight. If the BF is not effective (because the baby is not transferring sufficient milk), then the baby may be dehydrated/hypoglycaemic/failing to thrive. It is as daft to blame excl BF as a cause as it would be to say 'shoes cause bunions' when we know it is ill-fitting shoes that cause bunions :). Shoes themselves are fine :)

You point to the NHS blunders that left babies affected by hypoglycaemia - quite right they should be compensated, because it is poor care that allowed this to happen, not excl bf. Clearly those babies needed intervention, and it was not available...that's why the parents were compensated. If it was just 'excl bf' to 'blame', then that would be parents' choice and NHS not blameworthy.

Start thinking outside the box a bit more. I don't think women put themselves under pressure because they have heard/read about benefits which are overblown. They want to breastfeed, sometimes putting themselves under pressure to do so, 'cos they feel strongly it is lovely and beneficial experience they want to share with their babies - the actual idea that they might 'poison' their babies if they give formula comes from their heart, not their head.

BTW, the one paper I know of which estimates 15 per cent of mothers unable to excl bf (the Neifert paper?) is very badly done....they defined 'unable to excl bf' by babies who did not put on an ounce a day between 2 weeks and 3 weeks. Not a good, or accurate, or evidence-based definition.

itsmine - I agree that the term 'virgin gut' is unhelpful and off putting. But I don't worry about it - it's not something that's caught on, and I don't often come across anyone who has even heard of the term. People here who say it is a 'common myth' are referring to their own circle - I really do have a wider experience and I can tell you it is not.

However, it's a perfectly respectable, descriptive concept though - that the baby comes into the world with his digestive system 'primed' to receive breastmilk only and that physiologically-speaking, other foods come as a 'surprise' to the newborn gut :) . No one needs use this as a stick to beat mothers with, or a threat, or a judgment. It's just a description of how things are.

Greyelephant - not sure I follow your figures, or how you calculate the percentage reason for readmission. Whatever, reasons for readmission differ across the neonatal period - and you have to separate out healthy term babies from the pre-term or sick babies who come back in, probably later in the first month. The first week is the time when a (small) number of babies are readmitted for feeding problems - and it is not 'pedantic' to say it's not the method of feeding but the way it's done that causes the problems, it is crucial to make the distinction. Effective breastfeeding does not cause feeding problems; babies who are not breastfeeding effectively are the ones at risk, and they should be spotted by the people whose job it is to spot them!

itsmine, Norway is not a homogenous country. Its immigrant population is somewhat higher than the UK's and it is ethnically very mixed. There are historical and cultural differences between Norway and the UK, for sure, but the idea that Norwegian women are less likely to 'do as they are told' than we are and so blindly 'obey' by breastfeeding is bizarre.

bigmamapeach, yes, delayed onset of lactation is real (though it can be iatrogenic - separation of mothers and babies after birth eg in the US and elsewhere, lack of ad lib feeding) and should be watched for. These babies are at risk. Institutional changes might address the iatrogenic causes, and beyond that mothers can be helped and supported to express....but in the absence of donor milk, yes, judiciuous supplementation with formula may well be needed. BTW, you are well behind the times if you think bf support is still banging on about bf being wonderful and healthy etc and harms of formula etc.....areas of it maybe, but the best and newer thinking is more about advocacy and understanding what women want.

The 'excl breastfeed at all costs' message (cited by one poster) is a misunderstanding of campaigns like Baby Friendly which aim to remove insutitiuonal barriers to mothers' choice to bf.

Bertrand you are right - the sadness of not being able to breastfeed (sometimes because of a crappy reason like happened to your poor MIL) can stay with some women for decades. I have had the experience of talking to many women about this - young and old.

Grayelephant · 04/05/2017 16:44

Aloha, we've just got a bit of a way to come yet in normalising g dad's taking a more active role, and mums having better maternity benefits.

I count myself lucky that although I'm self employed so don't get great maternity benefits, my husband can have 6 months off paid. Hence economically is better for us to switch. But that situation is itself rare.

Ita a shame that maternity pay is so pants in this country. Whether a woman breastfeeds or not is a very personal issue, and it's a shame that it's often driven by financial considerations. Equally though, I think the ban on any promotions etc on formula milk also adds unfair extra financial concerns on to those that might want to bottle feed. Neither way should be a financial question in an ideal world.

Alyosha · 04/05/2017 16:44

Tiktok -

Quite simply, when it comes to dehydration, if those babies were FF they wouldn't have been admitted to hospital.

Attempting to EBF can cause dehydration. The dehydration wouldn't have happened if the babies were supplemented with formula or were fully FF.

Do you think FF causes infections?

It's the same logic.

Alyosha · 04/05/2017 16:47

Gray - actually I think the ban on promotions is dead on for Formula.

I work in FMCG and the cost to parents would almost certainly be the same as it is now with promotions. The base price would simply be higher. As it is companies & retailers still compete on price but fixed price, which is better for parents to plan the feeding of their baby.

The only thing I disagree with is not being able to collect points/use discount vouchers for whole shops on Formula.

You're right that it's very sad that our mat pay is so crap - there's no point having a year off if only 6 weeks is paid decently.

gluteustothemaximus · 04/05/2017 17:38

I think sometimes I feel like the opinion is, BF should be easy, and if it isn't don't kill yourself over it, as formula is just as good.

But BF isn't easy. It's exhausting. It hurts. The cluster feeding can bring you to your knees. The constant feeding day and night. Those first 6-8 weeks were hell for me, all 3 times.

But I kept going, because I wanted to BF, and was able to.

I'm not being a martyr. Or stubborn. Or saying FF is wrong. I just wanted to BF.

I had a friend who went back to work after 6 months, and her mum brought her baby in every lunch to BF as she couldn't express. Everyone said why? Why are making like harder for yourself, just give formula?

Just because you find it hard, doesn't mean you want to stop. Saying no, you don't want to give formula, doesn't mean you have anything against it.

Could never imagine anyone having problems with FF would be inundated with suggestions of try BF, it's better!

I feel lucky though, as DH very supportive, and I'm self employed, so for my circumstances, I could do it longer. In fact I'm not sure how to stop, and then I feel almost embarrassed I'm still feeding at 14 months as I know lots of opinions on extended breastfeeding Sad

Back to OP. I feel like the BF really helped with bugs. They all had very mild bugs whilst BF. DD got chicken pox at 6 weeks, doctor said was very mild due to BF. No asthma, excema etc. But would it have been different on FF? Who knows. So many factors at play. Unless you can go back in time, and FF same child, you won't know.

And BF was cheap for me. Two nursing bras, £10, two nursing tops £20, some lansinoh £10, and pads at beginning £5. Total £45.

Goldmandra · 04/05/2017 17:48

But BF isn't easy. It's exhausting. It hurts. The cluster feeding can bring you to your knees

I agree with everything you said apart from this ^

BFing for me was easy and, apart from flinching a bit as they latched on for the first few days, it was pain free. They both knew exactly what to do and just got on with it.

There were lots of hard things about the early days, especially for DD1, but BFing was definitely the easiest part.

There are as many different BFing experiences as there are mothers who have BFed.

BertrandRussell · 04/05/2017 18:05

Just as an aside- do bottle fed babies not cluster feed? I thought they did.

tiktok · 04/05/2017 18:10

Aloysha I think precision in language is important especially as some mothers may be worried about a choice to excl bf because they think, wrongly, it is risky per se.

Do I think formula milk/formula feeding causes infection? I think it's clear that formula milk, especially if incorrectly or unsafely prepared or given, increases the risk of infection developing because the baby is not getting the antibodies he'd get with breastfeeding - so he is less able to combat an encounter with the pathogens that grow in dried or stale milk. In some cases, you can link a pathogen in the milk to the disease in the baby. So in these cases, yes, ff has caused the infection. But with proper education, clean water supply, materials for feeding, careful prep, it's much less likely to happen. You could say parents who miss out on the knowledge or the opportunity to prepare/give formula safely have also been let down by hcps. We hear sometimes of hcps who say 'I can't tell you how to formula feed' - which is daft and negligent.

Mustang27 · 04/05/2017 19:56

You shouldn't be embarrassed at feeding your 14 month old Gluteus, I'm still feeding my 23 month old expecting another and I'm fully prepared to have to tandem feed. Don't let others opinion on extended feeding get to you. Apart from the one person on the thread calling out comfort feeding saying it encourages comfort eating Hmm I genuinely think there are so many benefits and really can't see many cons except from the fact that it can be exhausting not having your body to yourself.

HomityBabbityPie · 04/05/2017 19:59

The op doesn't enjoy it Mustang, I think that's the point.

BertrandRussell · 04/05/2017 20:09

She is not enjoying it, she wants to stop and she should stop.

GreenGinger2 · 04/05/2017 20:16

Mine never cluster fed on formula. They were Gina babies once on formula and it was heaven. I knew exactly what to give and when. All of us are crap when hungry,utterly miserable. They were so panicky and cranky when bfed.It changed overnight when we cracked open the formula,3 utterly content happy babies. One has a very high metabolism and another gets hangry very easily. I suffer from low blood pressure,low blood sugar and I suspect she does.With formula they were utterly different,they didn't seem to need to cluster feed,the Gina calculations were bang on even for my voracious skinny minny eater.

Offred · 04/05/2017 20:36

I have no issue with extended feeding.

I don't believe comfort feeding is a good thing for a toddler because I don't think eating or drinking anything for comfort is a good habit to teach a child. BF for comfort is not quite as bad as FF for comfort IMO because with BF you are also getting comfort from cuddling and being close to your mother.

My sister is still comfort feeding at night with her 14 month old and that's great because she loves it but I honestly cannot understand why someone like the OP, who hates it and is knackered would continue to do it.

Actual breastmilk is good for a baby for as long or as little as you give it to them. I don't give my children food to help them with their feelings. I didn't give them BM to help with their feelings or help them settle to sleep past around 9 months - 1 year. I still fed the twins until they were 2 I just had a bedtime routine with all of them from 6 months designed to break the link between feeding and sleeping so they had their evening feed and then their story not the other way around.

Extended breastfeeding is not the same as comfort feeding and it absolutely does not mean you have to be up 4 times a night feeding a toddler unless you want to be like my sister does.

I dislike this idea that feeding on demand should continue for as long as feeding continues. When a baby/child is old enough for their demands to become more complex and their diet to become more varied, from at the earliest 6 months, then only demand feed if you want to.

Offred · 04/05/2017 20:42

And yes I dislike all the giving a toddler a bottle in their bed to get them to sleep too. At least with BF you are with them.

Older babies and toddlers need to know that you will respond to their need for comfort, I hate hate hate all that cry it out business, but equally I never saw the benefit to using feeding to comfort them when cuddling, singing etc would also work just as well. That's because I needed to have functional levels of sleep or I wouldn't have been able to cope.

DSIS doesn't seem to need as much sleep, maybe because I have MS. Maybe because she is not a single parent.

Alyosha · 04/05/2017 20:48

Tiktok, surely the risk of dehydration is something mums wanting to EBF should be made aware of?!

As we know that it is a risk for EBF but not so much for FF?

gluteustothemaximus · 04/05/2017 20:49

Thanks Mustang - admittedly I did go Shock at the comfort feeding = comfort eating when older as I'm sure mine is definitely comfort feeding at night.

But agree, if the OP is unhappy, and wants to stop, definitely stop.

Offred · 04/05/2017 20:56

And I never said comfort feeding equals comfort eating!!! I said I don't think it is wise to get into a habit of giving a child food or drink for comfort. I also think since it is inevitable that you will stop BF at some point it is wise to teach children early on comfort habits that are not feeding (FF/BF). How do you go about explaining to a toddler why they can't comfort feed anymore having caused them to become dependent on feeding for sleep/comfort? It must just be really sad for them.

0-3 years is so important for setting patterns for the rest of your life.

minifingerz · 04/05/2017 21:00

"Could never imagine anyone having problems with FF would be inundated with suggestions of try BF, it's better!"

^ in spades

Offred · 04/05/2017 21:03

And all babies and young children will want to comfort feed. That's because they need to feed on demand when they are young. There's just a window where I feel it is best for everyone to start teaching a child about different ways to be comforted or go to sleep that are not feeding. That is usually (beyond 6 months as a minimum) when the comfort feeding is driving you mad and phasing out comfort feeding is not the same as stopping breastfeeding altogether. They are two different things and yes you can be a responsive, loving and comforting parent without feeding for comfort.

bangingmyheadoffabrickwall · 04/05/2017 22:04

I couldn't give a flying fuck if someone wanted to BF, FF, pump/bottle feed, mix feed, give organic, go Cow and Gate, be Vegan and BF - blah, blah, blah (and that is an example of my friend's choices!)

Our kids are all different in lots of ways. Some BF children are a bit stunted, some not. Some FF kids towering lamp posts for their age, some not. In my circle, more of the BF children do suffer with ear infections, eczema, asthma and also a few hospitalisations - the things we are told BF protects against YET non of the FF children are sick with illnesses like these - make your own mind up about that! (disclaimer: this is just an example of my social circle!)

Some BF children are bright at school, others not so and vice versa with FF babies. We have children with anger issues that have been BF and FF children we are deemed 'naughty' at school.

My own kids were BF for a month then FF (I found it too exhausting and mentally debilitating). One is tall, the other short (genetics - eldest a genetic mutation I think!). One is placid and the other is, well, psycho! Neither have been ill except for colds and an odd 24-hour bug. In fact my youngest has only ever been sick once in her 2 short years (lucky me!).

My class of 30 kids - no idea who was BF and who was FF. I dare say there will be a mix and some academically able and others more sporty or arty etc, etc. Just like I have a mix of PP and 'middle class' children across the 'academic and sports and art',

Kid's fed. End of!

Atenco · 04/05/2017 22:11

"How do you go about explaining to a toddler why they can't comfort feed anymore having caused them to become dependent on feeding for sleep/comfort? It must just be really sad for them"

Empirically, I don't think that is true actually. My adult dd doesn't comfort eat and she was breastfed on demand, whereas my dsis has always gone in for comfort eating and I comfort smoke, and we were fed to a strict four-hour timetable

Swipe left for the next trending thread