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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

do i really need his permission?

117 replies

ohdeaeyme · 28/04/2017 15:36

split up with abusive ex back in january. want to take my children on holiday in june do i really need his permission?

we werent married, he is on the birth certificate.

OP posts:
c3pu · 28/04/2017 16:42

Letter of the law is that yes, you do need permission of everybody with PR to take the children out of the country, or a court order.

However it's quite rare to actually be challenged on it and most separated parents don't bother getting permission, usually because they don't realise it's a requirement.

usernumbernine · 28/04/2017 16:43

As he is on the birth certificate, in the absence of an arrangement order she needs his permission.

She may never be stopped. She may never be asked for it. But technically in order to comply with the law, she needs it.

youarenotkiddingme · 28/04/2017 16:46

I've taken ds abroad loads of times (different surnames but I'm X and he's Y-X).

I've never been asked if I have permission. I don't know where his father is!

Zaphodsotherhead · 28/04/2017 16:47

I took various permutations of my kids away with either myself or my X (who wasn't their father, so we all had different names) and not once has anyone even raised an eyebrow. The kids will all have been over 10 though, so maybe that's why?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 28/04/2017 16:48

However it's quite rare to actually be challenged on it and most separated parents don't bother getting permission, usually because they don't realise it's a requirement.

It was rare, however it is becoming more common.

jakscrakers · 28/04/2017 16:48

You only need the other parents permission if you are out of the country longer than 28 days, my ex has PR but I got a passport without him having to sign it because I a) have PR being her mother and b) i have residency, he has actually tried in the past to block our trips overseas but they were just laughed/ignored at by the solicitors and courts

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 28/04/2017 16:52

Theoretically then, if you follow the law and attempt to get permission from an abusive ex when going abroad, he could refuse everytime.

So you'd never be able to have a holiday abroad with your children. That seems so unfair. Sad

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 28/04/2017 16:54

Just seen your post, jaks, that makes more sense to me.

Qtipsrsweet · 28/04/2017 16:54

If you're going abroad, and the children have a different surname to you, You will need a letter of consent from him to show to the immigration officer. U.K. Immigration will always ask for proof so take copies of their birth certs along aswell.

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/04/2017 16:56

I went for less than 28 days and was still asked twice.

Whathaveilost · 28/04/2017 16:59

I'm not divorced, however you can't tell if some is divorced r not just by looking at them!

I have been going away with my boys since they were 3 and 1 by myself several times a year ( minimumof 4 times) + weekendbreaks, flying Friday night returning Sunday right u until they were 16,
Not once have I been asked about them except when we get to passport control and told to go up together rather than singularly.

Technically should they have askedabout us?

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 28/04/2017 16:59

Were you asked for a letter of consent from the father Mrs.TP, or just birth certificates?
OP has said that she is pretty certain that her ex will refuse to give permission out of spite, so it hardly seems worth asking him.

Branleuse · 28/04/2017 16:59

Ive never got my exs permission to take my ds1 on holiday, and weve been away a fair bit, but we have been asked what relation we are to each other. He tells them i'm his mum, and thats the end of it, its fine

Original poster
ohdeaeyme · 28/04/2017 17:03

contact isnt arranged through court, i havr been advised to make him take me to court about it as his violence was pretty extreme.

i may just bloody do court for the sake of oeace of mind

OP posts:
Gini99 · 28/04/2017 17:07

jakscrakers if you have (what used to be called) a residence order then the law is slightly different, that doesn't apply to people without an order. So it works like this:

  1. To leave the country even for a short time then legally you need the consent of everyone with PR or you need a court order. If you don't have that then you're technically abducting your child. The consent doesn't have to be in writing or explicit. Of course, what the law says and how it is enforced are different matters so it may be that no-one checks or that they are happy with your explanation even if you don't have written permission.
  1. If you have a residence order (now a child arrangements order saying that the child can live with you) as jakscrakers does then you can take the child out of the country for 28 days without permission. I.e. you get an exemption from (1) for holidays. If you want to go for longer than that then you need written permission.

So OP, if there isn't a child arrangements order in place or any other kind of order that addresses this then you technically need his permission and it's up to you whether you take the chance that it won't be a problem.

More detail here [http://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/abduction/]]

PS I assuming you are in England or Wales. It's not the same rules everywhere.

Gini99 · 28/04/2017 17:08

whoops link fail. I mean here childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/abduction/

workingmumsarebad · 28/04/2017 17:22

Oh yes the hoy of border control - targetting women whose kids do not have the same name - yet abusive twunt who has the same name gets stopped.

Really stops child abduction - not, especially when they only ask you as you come back into the country!

They recommend you carry something to prove relationship but is not mandatory and even when you do you get abuse !!

Get the passports and go -

Original poster
ohdeaeyme · 28/04/2017 17:32

if they were to ask me to ring him at borders to check permission he would refuse to give it

OP posts:
emmalie · 28/04/2017 17:32

I was in this position.

I think you're supposed to BUT I've never bothered and it's never stopped us.
However, because we don't have the same surname I do have to take DD's birth certificate which shows my maiden name and now my new marriage certificate to prove my maiden name (name on her birth certificate) is actually me! Bit of a pain really!

grannytomine · 28/04/2017 17:38

workingmumsarebad, it isn't about the name, it is about both parents giving consent. My sister and her ex were married, no one bothered to check when he abducted the children to live abroad. I am glad that they are clamping down on this and doing more checks. Slightly inconvenient for someone wanting a holiday, total disaster if the other parent abducts your children and goes on the run.

RedDahlia · 28/04/2017 17:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
ohdeaeyme · 28/04/2017 18:08

what is stopping someone faking a letter?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 28/04/2017 19:29

My letter had to be notarized.

I gave letters both times but I think the second they would have taken the BC.

HorridHenryrule · 29/04/2017 11:42

Get a passport application and fill it in and send it ffs. Worry about the rest after.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 29/04/2017 11:43

what is stopping someone faking a letter?

Arrest and a criminal record?

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