To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

It was a response to uglyflowers post

Valentine, as I said below, I am a Labour voter and supporter and unless something dramatic happens on Brexit, I will be voting Labour this time. Arguments about how awful the tories are hold no sway with me - I agree and would never vote for them. But I want something better from the Labour party leadership, from the party I have supported for more than 30 years. I cannot get behind a man who has taken money from Iranian state TV, who said the things he did at the HofC select committee last summer, and who opposed the Good Friday agreement. Those things are all on record.

I don't understand what you mean below in response to my comment about Trident and Brexit? JC was at odds with the party on two massive and divisive issues, and ran for office anyway.

Corbyn had no political reason to appear on Iranian State TV giving his opinion apart from to line his own pockets

I have no idea which one of these leaders are doing what in their after-politics life. We actually have people like George Osborne holding more than TWO full time jobs. And Iran or Saudis, we have dozens of our politicians who have the history of doing stuff like this (I have no idea what he said there in that appearance, mind you so I need to look at it before passing judgement).
We have got To choose somebody who could stop Tories right now. In some places, it will certainly mean Corbyn (Labour party that is). In my area, it's so hard. I am thinking to vote tactical but keep feeling wobbly. I am not a life long Labour voter. Need to figure out what to do with my vote to stop the idiot representing my constituency.

To be clear, conference voted for Trident and the unions support it - I don't.

However JC was not being held over a barrel when he chose proudly to give such support to the work of the PIRA. Different scenario entirely.

Exactly and bringing certain people to HoC just days after friends and families of MPs had been killed and seriously injured by the bombings was at the very least inconsiderate!

You mentioned May meeting with the Saudi's- it was part of her work as PM

Corbyn's wasn't but paid him nicely

lalsy
When you say "party", do you mean PLP or the Labour Party members? Can you please share some data regarding some kind of polling or estimates of Labour members againsta or for Trident? As for his Brexit stance, I think he was actually quite clever when he didn't even bring Brexit up in his election discussion some days ago. All his points kept circling round economy, housing, national education system (like NHS) and renationalisation railways etc. I have absolutely no doubt that, if by some chance he becomes a prime minister, he will be vehemently opposed from ALL parliament if he tried to raise taxes on people earning above 70k so I am not worried about that point. Amd if we got rid if Trident losses, we wouldn't need that anyway. So basically, he managed to say that he will not loose sight of these targets and if Brexit goes ahead, he will not be able to meet those targets at all. So it's like he hit two targets with one bullet.
So I think it's not as bad as the death of Labour or something. Brexit is far more dangerous to this country than Corbyn.
I have just been informed by a rather sleepy looking DH that Labour is polling higher than Tories in under 40s? Really?

it was part of her work as PM
Really? You mean that the people who fund and support and train terorroism that kills people on the streets of my beautiful city of London are part of May's job?
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME SOME IRANI IDEOLOGIST BLEW UP A LONDON UNDERGROUND?
And again, I need to go and see what he said there. I have no problems with anyone talking to press in this country by the way. We can tolerate Anjem Chaudhries and Daily Mails and Suns. We can tolerate another Tory rule or we will become like USA minus the size of course. And size matters

Yes apparently they are polling higher in the under 40's

But as younger voters are less likely to vote and when that is taken into account the overall polls Tories are still ahead

Sorry. Wanted to write "we can't tolerate another Tory rule".
Sleepy I am.

Yes that's exactly what I told DH. He agrees too. We have still got no idea whether we should vote LibDem or Labour though. I have a feeling I will go along with Labour if the polls keep going this way. So we don't cancel out Labour chances.
Who knows. We might as well get Sadiq Khan one day if Labour is strengthened. I quite like him.

I like him too. Intelligent, personable, knows how to appeal to different demographics

I think its now more about getting the disillusioned and disenfranchised to vote

That always gets trotted out. It really isn't. There really are not millions upon millions of people not voting because there is not a party far enough to the left for them to support.

Yes it is part of her role meeting with senior politicians from around the world

Don't you understand Corbyn would also have to deal with nasty horrible people he doesn't like if he were PM

We shouldn't have to have another five years of Tory rule but we are going to becuase the opposition is so ridiculously poor they won't win voters over no matter how nice they come across or how nice and crowd pleasing their policies sound they simply are not backed up with how they could be implemented

If the election was called in a years time Labour could possibly stand a chance as we could in that time get rid of the fool and replace him with someone with far more intelligence and political nous like Keir Starmer, Dan Jarvis or Yvette Cooper

I'm a die hard labour voter and I love corbyn and indeed voted him in but he's turned out to be so ineffective :(

he should be campaigning like fuck right now. never off our tellies, shouting from the rooftops, clear direction, clear leadership.

I barely hear a peep out of him even now with this bloody election coming up. He's lost me. I ditched my labour membership months ago in disgust

I voted Labour in every election since 1979 although I had not been a member of the party. I joined (as a full member ) specifically to vote for Yvette Cooper, whom failing Andy Burnham, whom failing Liz Kendall.

It was obvious from the outset that Corbyn would be an unmitigated disaster.

You didn't reply my point enthusiasm where I asked when was the last time some IRANI ideologist blew up in London.
I don't like Dan Jarvis or Cooper. But yy to Starmer (been reading a bit on him today).
But even if we had Justin Trudeau in Labour right now, attamepting yet another coup will be still detrimental. I am not why people who are trying their best to "save" Labour by trying to oust Corbyn don't understand that it's all about appearances. It's such an obvious mistake on behalf of PLP that I suspect it's not an honest mistake. I am hardly a student of political science here but I can put myself in the shoes of a common voter. Why can't the PLP do that.

I'm not surprised labour are doing well with the under 40s - most of my friends will vote labour and they don't dislike Corbyn. None of us are the type that would bother to vote on any online polls either.

Personally, I like him. I think he has integrity and he really speaks to me for some reason. Although the tories scoff at him, I love that he asks questions that real people want the answers to in pmq. My mum is conservative but even she applauded him today for bringing the waspies topic up to May. I think the party turning against him have weakened their position and the media being against him won't help but we are in a funny era where people have started to look beyond all that.

I think the party turning against him have weakened their position and the media being against him won't help but we are in a funny era where people have started to look beyond all that.
^^ this

I first voted in 1992 and have always voted labour. Have been a party member on and off for 20 years

yes it was obvious to all but his supporters (and even some have now realised) he is a disaster for the Labour Party but now also for the country as there hasn't been a time in recent history that we have needed the opposition to do a thorough job in opposing or holding this government to account and he fails time and time again

enthusiasm
You still haven't answered my point please.

I mean the Labour Party, Valentine, in all its glory - ie party conference (CLP delegates, unions etc). Here is what happened in 2015 and you can look up previous years www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2015/09/how-labour-conference-voted-favour-trident-renewal
Also listen to Clive Lewis' speech from this year.

Opposition to Trident may have shifted since his election because of new members - but my point was he ran in 2015 knowing he was at odds with the membership on two important issues. He has never compromised on anything as far as I can see and spent day 1 of the referendum campaign at a CND rally - so at odds with the party.

What has an Irani ideologist got to do with the discussion about May meeting heads of state in her role as PM

Valentine2 that is a rather stupid argument you are putting forward

enthusiasm
Kindly don't twist my words.
I said I have more of a problem with our heads of state meeting the people who have supported terror networks that killed our people in our streets, than Corbyn appearing on some IRANI TV while we have no known case in the last fifty years of some Irani supporter blowing himself up in an underground.
What so hard to understand in this? And you call me stupid then?

lalsy
Thanks a lot for the link. I will read it tomorrow.
I am not sure about the statistics regarding new members. I can say one thing though: all my friends are under 40 and I have yet to see someone who is not opposed to Trident.
I am not terribly worried about this either. I think the use of nuclear weapons is likely only in one case and that's when Trump has it under his control (he soundly use a finger I think. Whole fist more like. sorry just joking).
But jokes aside, I think Trident is a massive side issue to keep us distracted. That's how my circle thinks. That can be an echo chamber I agree. But if the polls have anything to go by, we might as well trust the pattern there.