To think it's wrong that Dance and Drama students get so much help with degree costs?

[Serin]

When everyone else has to pay £9000 a year and then living costs.
If the government has money to fund some courses why not use it to fund nursing students?
www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

Do we have a chronic shortage of actors?

Oh god please let's not base our political opinions on Woyzeck...

I think yabu but totally see where you're coming from. I work in theatre and would love more, better paid, nurses and paramedics, but I don't think the DADA budget is a big enough fraction of education funding to worry about. The arts are already inaccessible enough to those from lower income families and I think more than ever they have a vital role to play in our development as a society. I'm happy for my taxes to fund something that makes them more representative not less.

Tinsel? I don't get your point about STEM subjects?
My daughter is terrible at Science, Tech, Engineering and Maths!
She got into University because she auditioned well and is good at English.

I understand Oxbridge colleges charge higher than £9k fees too for a lot of courses - and for the same reason as RADA .. they can!. Also RADA do offer auditions fee free for some - is (what they see as talent) not income related though.

Someone mentioned the Brit school - this is a state school and open to anyone to apply to (though we are in the immediate catchment area - not that DS went there I should add. It seemed to me to be a great school if it suits the child!

She's good at English! so she could take a traditional route to a degree that included arts!

I just do not understand this mentality of complaining about other ordinary, deserving people getting help instead of tackling the real inequalities in our society. It's the same reason that people bang on about benefit fraud (which costs the economy around £1.3bn) instead of tax evasion (£34bn). Campaign for more bursaries for young people, not less.

Tinsel, Yes she is good at English. If she was just doing Drama she would be auditioned mainly on that. I think lots of uni's have become a lot more flexible around entry requirements, lots of DD's friends did not get great grades but were offered places on degree courses. Are you saying that the courses that DaDa fund are for people who have few formal qualifications?

Fair enough, I would be the last person to write anyone off. But you can't then say that these people are the art and drama therapists of the future as you cant be an art or drama therapist without a formal degree and a post grad.

I just don't agree with how you pitch it against student nurses! Of course the bursary should be re-instated, but it won't be even if dance and drama lose their funding

Nurse associates are being rolled out across the country despite serious concerns. This is offered as the concession for those who dont' think they'll manage a nursing degree and it's past the point of no return sadly

My DD just passed GCSEs but wouldn't have been able to do A levels at 6th form college as she didnt get the grades required but When she completes her course she will have a level 6 diploma

She qualified for 2 DaDA (at the full rate plus plus maintenance) but took a private scholarship & bursary

None of the unis do the same level of training that she has (even if she would have been able to apply - & there are no colleges in our county that do the level 3 in dance - the main college does a course with 14 contact hours in dance of which less than 10 are practical) she attends over 35 hours of class at college plus the work she does 'on her own' & is rarely home from college before 7 despite starting at 8am

Previous to her '6th form' she received money from an MDS which is specifically designed for children who would never have a chance to attend private ballet school

When she returns to education as a mature student it is likely that she would get in to uni without A levels, possibly with an access course. I imagine she will teach, but you never know she might become a nurse or some some of therapist.

I did campaign for more bursaries peach, I really fought for NHS bursary funding to stay.

My Dd went to drama school, didn't get a Dada but got an award to pay her fees. Because she came from Scotland we still had to pay the Scottish eqivilent of fees even though she was studying in England. She came back to university in Scotland but because she hadn't lived in Scotland for the previous three years she never got her fees paid even though she was the only Scot on the course. Her fees were eventually paid by England which allowed her to teach Drama.

Actually, we do have a shortage of dancers - ballet dancers were on the immigration shortage list last time I looked at it.

Nursing students get funding for their degrees, just like students studying law, maths and media studies. A performing arts corse recognised as a degree gets that funding because it's a degree. The DaDAs just give similar funding to students who aren't doing degrees, but are doing a select group of diplomas.

Nursing students already have their degrees funded just like other degrees - what's the issue?

I just don't see how people wanting to train in the arts cant do a traditional degree and pay it back like everyone else has to.

Well, for dancing you really need to start earlier - which is why most dance students are at dance college by 16 (if not earlier). So they are too young to go to university and get a degree. Not to mention that they can't just do a degree instead because dance training is in no way equivalent to a degree. It is not assessed or structured in the sort of way a degree is, and no university would certify it as a "degree".

There are also a lot more taught hours on these courses, making them much more expensive to run.

Some of the accredited actor training courses are degrees, but this will happen slowly as they were not able to be in the past, and it is a slow process to become degree awarding. A drama course at a traditional university is nothing like an actor training course, anymore than history of medicine would train you to be a doctor.

Serin,

I am rather astonished at your post as most of the things you are saying are wrong. As well I fail to understand why you have it in for performing arts and dance students.

Many actually have to fundraise money themselves to pay as a proper drama school is unlike university where you only need to attend x amount of lectures a week and submit work/exams whereas people studying at a conservatoire are there 9-5 constantly working not just in those hours but outside them too so aren't able to get a job to support themselves.

In addition to that I'm pretty sure that not all students who are eligible actually recieve the DaDa and they only go to those who show talent and potential.

Please someone do correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am (otherwise I wouldst have posted lol)

*I just don't see why people wanting to train in the arts can't do a traditional degree
*
Because many arts training courses aren't at degree level. There was extremely little academic content on my acting course - though I did probably 10 X the amount of contact hours. (We worked 9-5 mon/wed, 9-9 tue/thur and 9-3 on a fri.)

I would expect a dance diploma to have even less academic content. We're talking about performing arts courses here. Not courses that study performing arts in a broader societal context. These are doing courses.

I hate all the attacks on the arts- there has been so many severe cuts to art based projects over the years and actually, the arts including film props up the economy in many respects.

This stops drama/dance schools being elitist and I think it's great that we are supporting young talent.

I think there are many areas that we could cut, pensions being an area to review, but why all the hate towards the arts?

Yanbu.

Drama school is vocational training. That's why you don't get a degree.

Most people I know who are working in the arts who have a drama degree have also gone on to do vocational training post degree because most drama colleges do not equip people with the skills to actually work as a performer. Dance is a whole different world and nothing remotely like a degree.

DaDa awards and similar mean that people who otherwise wouldn't have the chance to follow their dream of being a performer get that shot at it.

If you want to be a nurse and you are on a low income you still get loans. If you want to be a dancer or a stage manager and you are on a low income you get told your course will cost twice as much and you will have to fund it up front yourself. I've been through training in both areas so do have some experience of this.

OP, do you know how many universities offer a degree in classical ballet?

None.

That's right, none. None at all.

There are only three institutions in the UK offering training in classical ballet at degree level with a student loan, and they are not universities. My dc is at one of them.

These schools actually charge students to audition for their courses as well. Usually £50+ an audition. Then there is the travel costs to the audition. It can be really expensive for 18 year olds from outside of London. It is utter cheek really. Why should they charge students to audition?