To think it's wrong that Dance and Drama students get so much help with degree costs?

[Serin]

When everyone else has to pay £9000 a year and then living costs.
If the government has money to fund some courses why not use it to fund nursing students?
www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

Do we have a chronic shortage of actors?

If they're private schools why isn't the government making them offer busaries to poor talented students who can't afford the fees?

It's diplomas only, 16-23 yos, and the nationality/residency requirements are he same as for all student finance.

The govt data site says the (twice a year) reports are not published, on the grounds if would make individual students identifiable. That could mean that the numbers receiving it are small (the application rubric does say 'may be eligible', not 'are entitled to).

That said, the total annual cost of the scheme (which began in 1999) ought to be available, but I've not been able to find it yet.

Given that you have so much time on your hands, why don't you look up what other unacceptable things your taxes get spent on? At one point, the government was funding fucking homeopaths while gutting the NHS. And don't get me started on how much money the royal parasites get given.

Actually, the government and taxpayers should fund all higher education, via grants. Just like they used to do.

It's not going to be funding many people, in the grand scheme of things. It helps people do something they otherwise may not.

A huge amount of people will never pay back their student loans, so we are funding them anyway!

Also, age is important. You have to be between 16 and 24, was it? Young. Nice and young. Young for funding. Young for any chance really. It's something you need to do at a certain point, it's not something you suddenly decide to study when older and able to support yourself. The physicality means working on top wouldn't be the best idea.

Also, students under the age of 24 are entitled to funding for other courses. These are not degreea

They do have to be paid back though , from a month after the course is completed , regardless of how much you're earning ( the student , not the parent )
I think , as we looked into one for DD , but she's doing a Performing Arts degree instead , so she gets normal student finance and we live in Wales so she only pays £3 grand a year for tuition

Many dancers and performers would be more than happy to pay for their tuition in the same way that university students do, but unfortunately student loans are not available for specialist Diploma performing courses in dance, drama or musical theatre, only for degree courses. Why should these courses only be available to those that can afford to pay thousands of pounds tuition per term plus living costs?
OP, do you never watch TV or go to the theatre? Without professionally trained performers imagine the quality of that entertainment, be it actors, singers, dancers, musicians. Yes, some people do break into a professional career without formal or full time training via luck, or 'reality type' programmes (X factor / BGT etc) but they are generally in the minority, and only some are long term successful. My children are not in the least bit sporty, and I have no particular interest in sport, but I would not dream of complaining about the amount of government money that is spent on supporting sports clubs and training future sports players and athletes. Many young performers work just as hard, and dedicate just as much time to their training as young sportspersons.

Yes, most DaDa places for dance/ballet are at sixth form/year 12 equivalent, so post GCSE training. I have no idea what the "maintenance" portion of the DaDa is for as unlike MADE/MDS awards (for years 7-11), the DaDa funding usually only covers tuition fees. Boarding at somewhere like Tring Park used to be around £12,000 a year and there is no help available. Hence schools which do offer degrees and therefore attract Student Finance and Maintenance Loans are almost always more affordable to middle income families than a DaDa place.

The other issue is that DaDa schools are not in receipt of unlimited funding - some schools only get a few funded places each academic year. All the other places have to be privately funded unless the school also has scholarships available. I'm not sure, but I believe a certain percentage of each school's graduates have to get employment in dance/drama otherwise the school is at risk of losing funding.

Totally agree with you about homeopaths, grants and the royals Solid, but until they do fund all higher education I do not see how an exception can be made for dance and drama courses.

I work in the NHS, I see people literally discharged back onto the streets, it isn't meant to happen but it does.

To my mind the Arts are a business, like fashion or literature. If people like it enough they will buy into it.

Instead of wishing you could take the funding away from this group of students why dont you wish we could tax a few more big businesses and fund the nurses as well?

The way things are going only people who can afford private lessons will experience the arts. The arts have a huge impact on mental health. Getting your children interested in the arts among other things keeps them motivated and can prevent them getting in trouble. This should be accessible to regular people too.

These aren't degree courses - my DS is one of these students you object to so much - he will be applying to drama college to complete a degree course - his current course is an access course only - RADA though charges £19k a year - not £9k - for their degree course (so fingers crossed he doesn't get in). Acting / performing is the only way he is able to earn a living and he brings joy to those who enjoy his work. He works for free on summer workshops for children and when in paid employments is taxed / pays NI etc - he would be a terrible nurse!

I think the issue to focus on is that training for public services should be funded, after all Armed Forces, Police and Fire Service recruits don't have to self fund.

Btw Brit School(Years 10-13) is state funded but very selective.

My daughter is a second year nurse student and luckily isn't affected by the changes, she will continue to have her degree funded. She will still have £9,000 to repay but that's a lot less than those who choose to take up the nursing degree now.
My daughter is often on placement doing 12 hour shifts on busy wards, she isn't paid for these as its part of her degree but she does have to pay for travel/parking etc and she often works through the night and on weekends. She is scheduled onto the staff rota and included in the staffing levels. She has said that she wouldn't have chosen the course if she had been expected to fund it herself and be left with huge debt. Life as a student nurse is very different to students who aren't on placements and this has to be recognised or the shortage will be a disaster for the NHS.

To my mind the Arts are a business, like fashion or literature. If people like it enough they will buy into it.

Maybe if arts were more accessible it'ld take some pressure off NHS mental health and rehabilitation services

Performing arts programs for dementia and alzheimers have extraordinary results!

Dance programs for amputees address the mental health affect of physical health problems

Dance and drama therapy have both preventative, slowing of progression and symptom control as well as addressing associated mental health issues

Drama/dance therapy is also used for PTSD

Dance made accessible to children who don't like sport can improve their health outcomes thus reducing pressure on the NHS

My DD wouldn't be mentally able to cope so well with the pressures of school without people running drama groups which is her de-stress/outlet

None of those things can run without qualified facilitators

I think it's massively depressing that you think that the arts should be a luxury!

the NHS needs to think about prevention and rehab and holistic health if it is to survive.

Yes, the colleges are inspected by ofsted & part of the process they have to prove that graduates are not only employed but in good contracts. This determines how much money they get next time.

The school I know of also gives generous bursaries.

How many artists, sculptures do we need? What about Philosophers? Don't see many of them wanted at the job centre. I don't think it's fair to puck out a particular group

Good grief, of all the things your taxes pay for, why on earth are you getting on your high horse about this one. It gives talented young people from underprivileged and low income backgrounds the chance to contribute to the UK arts industry. A quick google revealed that last year the scheme cost around £30m (of a £50bn ESFA budget, so around 0.05%). Given the arts industry brings in £84bn to the UK economy and has for a decade been the fastest-growing sector of the economy, it's only around 0.03% of what we get back thanks to the arts, and 0.004% of UK tax revenue - so really a very tiny drop in the ocean...

I quite agree that we need to re-establish nursing bursaries but how is taking away funding from these students going to help? I don't understand why people are always so insistent that we have to take away from the poorer members of society rather than, you know, ensuring corporations pay tax correctly and closing the tax loopholes billionaires use to avoid their fiscal responsibilities. Why target something like this? Taking away these bursaries means specialist dance and drama courses are yet another thing that become completely inaccessible to lower (and, let's face it, middle) income families. That's not okay.

Broccoli, I do value the Arts! I have a DD who is on a Drama/English Lit degree at a traditional university and a DS who is a chorister (the only way we could afford singing lessons for him).

Lauren, I am not objecting to your son, just a system that seems to me to be blatantly unfair.

Why is RADA allowed to charge £19k a year? Who does this money go to? Also why is it allowed to charge students large amounts for several rounds of auditions?

Dancingfeet, yes I go to the theatre all the time. I was at the Old Vic on Saturday but I have to say, heathen that I am, that I have honestly seen better acting in our local sixth form college!

It's like the Emperor's new clothes! It's The Old Vic so it must be brilliant.

I fell asleep.

ovaries Good luck with the paramedic science degree. My DD is doing that now, she goes out to the ambulance station tomorrow and starts placements next month! She's only a few months into it but is absolutely loving it and there is a huge age range doing the course. She is the youngest there, at 18 but she said there are people there who have 3 kids and are juggling being a single mum with doing a degree.

She gets the loan for the course and also the living costs loan - nice debt when she leaves but she wants to go on and do the trauma course after a few years qualified and then hopefully transfer to the helicopter team.

The thing is, you don't need to go to a drama college to become facilitators/writers/therapists etc. You can do a Drama/Acting/Performing Arts degree. If you want to be a drama therapist you can do your MA in Dramatherapy.

I absolutely agree that the arts are vital, and widening participation is essential (I wrote a 3000 word essay on it ) but I think if we helped fund courses that emphasise the community and social values of theatre - BAs in Community & Applied or the dramatherapy MAs etc - rather than diplomas in musical theatre or ballet, it could be put to much better use.

Broccoli, I do value the Arts! I have a DD who is on a Drama/English Lit degree at a traditional university

But what about the kids who can't excel at STEM subjects to take that route?

I think if we write off all kids who don't excel at STEM subjects as not worth funding then the NHS is going to be picking up the pieces down the line!

I agree! I'm a English student and going on to a masters there is little help available! But if I was a dance student I would get a 4000 pound bursary! I find it very unfair. I feel that everyone should have so help depending on the intensity of the course!

Thank you Serin :)

Thanks mycats :) it's good to hear that she's enjoying it. I'm starting a job in control & communications with the ambulance service next week (999 call handler basically) and I can't wait! I want to be a HEMS paramedic eventually too, it sounds very hectic and stressful but so rewarding too. Best of luck to her!

Found it: the allocation of funding for DADA for 16/17 is £14m (if didn't specify how much of that is awards and how much the cost of the administration of the scheme).

RADA - which only takes over 18s - is not part of the scheme.

Tinseltwins

I agree with you, totally about the value of Arts in the NHS and in education. I am an OT and have worked with art and drama therapists in the past and seen the benefits directly. I am not disagreeing with you about that. I just don't see how people wanting to train in the arts cant do a traditional degree and pay it back like everyone else has to.

Peachgreen, No, taking away Dada funding does not mean that Drama courses become inaccessible to lower/middle income families. It means that they just take a degree at a traditional university where they will be charged £9000 instead of £19000!! In the same way that lower/middle income students studying any other courses have been forced to do.

I understand Oxbridge colleges charge higher than £9k fees too - for. the same reason as RADA they can!. They do offer auditions fee free for some