To ask to know when something is bothering her?

[user1493024090]

Ever since our DD was born, it feels like my marriage has been getting shaky. It's reached the point where we now repeat the same argument every week: She claims I'm lazy and not helping out enough, I tell her if there's something she wants me to do, all she has to do is tell me - I've never refused before.

And here is the TLDR version:
I work one of those FT jobs where evenings and weekends don't mean I'm not working. I do work a lot from home, though, which means I get up most mornings to take care of DD for a couple of hours while DW gets ready. She, on the other hand, quit her job so she can be a stay-at-home mum (with my blessing). I usually finish work at 6pm, around her bedtime, so most working days I don't get to do much aside from shooting smiles at DD, and the occasional break.

DW is arguing that after DD goes to bed (or on days she stays at her grandmother's), she still has to do housework, and that I don't participate at all. On the other hand, whenever I offer to help with something, my offer is almost always rejected: I'm not allowed to touch the laundry (not that I messed something up in the past, I was never allowed), I'm not allowed to put DD to bed (because it will supposedly mess up her routine), and even when it's things I'm "allowed" to do, I'm still faced with rejections when I offer.

Naturally, I just stopped offering to help - instead, I told her, if she wanted help, I'm more than willing to do anything she asks of me. Apparently, this is unacceptable.

When DD needs her nappy changed, I should do it - even if she's the one who smelled it, and does it herself before I even notice. When the bottles are in the sink, clean them - even though I hardly spend time near the sink to see them, and she pops by to make tea every couple hours (another thing I don't do well-enough, apparently). It's not that I don't agree I should help with these things, but when she notices something needs doing and I don't, she just does it herself and gets angry at me the next morning. All I ask is that she tells me, instead of just getting angry about it.

DD plays nicely by herself (and completely ignores me while she does), and I don't spend most of the weekend sitting with her. That's not to say I don't play with her at all, just obviously not as much as DW would like.

I know I'm not a saint here, and that it IS possible for me to periodically leave whatever it is I'm doing and check if the sink is full, but I don't think it's very difficult to point it out to me, either. One of us is obviously being unreasonable, so we're out to seek advice from the internet.

Why would you stop what you're doing and go look for work to do?

ThePants this is genuinely fascinating. I'm not trying to start a fight (and nor I'm sure are you) but this absolutely IS the difference. To whoever gets landed with the household shitwork (usually the woman) "what they're doing" INCLUDES keeping the household running. To the non-shitworker (usually the man) it doesn't - you see "what you're doing" as activities separate and extraneous to all the routine work that needs to be done.

So your mental plan for the evening, I surmise, might be "watch that programme, answer the email, computer game/read book, empty and reload the dishwasher, take out bins" or whatever your agreed job is. My mental plan for the evening goes "keep the household running (many subtopics to that!), maybe read a bit of that book".

If shitworkers/nonshitworkers could resolve this and move closer to each other's starting points there would be a lot more harmony in the world. It's not about being otherwise an unreasonable person either. My ex used to be (still is) a thoroughly decent and considerate man, but until I pulled him up on it he would still disappear onto his computer when we got in from doing the shopping, and it would somehow become my job to put the shopping away, chuck out any old stuff and then, since I was there anyway, get the dinner on, because that was what I knew had to be done next.

Somehow the idea that this was a continuous process of procuring food, storing it and cooking it, then cleaning up afterwards was something that eluded him. Specific tasks, "shop for food" he could do, but the cycle was invisible to him, and actually it's managing the cycle that takes a lot of the mental energy.

Thing is, he lives alone now and does these things absolutely fine. It just takes a bit of a perspective shift.

Actually my mental plans now are irrelevant because I also live alone, and my mental plan sometimes includes "abandon kitchen to forces of entropy". But when I DID cohabit that was my mental plan.

Had some sympathy for OP from the OP even " playing the PND card " I thought was ill advised but just wrong phrasing ,now he seems like an arsehole

@haveacupoftea You've turned this into a sexist thing where it doesn't exist. If you go over what I said, you'll find me saying that:

1. I consider raising a child a full time job.
2. I do believe she has PND, she's the one who's now claiming she doesn't.
3. I've never said anything about the money being mine, but I do believe we should spend within our means.
4. I've classed her as having a hoarding streak, not a full-blown hoarder, which has grown worse since the pregnancy. This isn't an insult, this is a description of the problem I'm having that I need to deal with.

@Biggreygoose Last week we finally booked her to see a GP about this. When she saw one last time, right after the birth, they sent her home. I'm really hoping things will be different this time.

I am now furious on your poor wife's behalf. Admitting you are struggling and may have mental health problems is hugely difficult even to someone who is not clearly a misogynist prick. It makes you feel like a failure and waste of space. And makes the motivation to do anything incredibly difficult to find. And this attitude of 'playing a card', well why do you think she's in denial about it? It always takes me a long time to admit when depression is back and do something about it.

She is a stay at home MUM. Not a cleaner, cook, housekeeper or slave. Looking after a toddler is actually a full time job and you really can't stop and rest, for a minute, as they may harm themselves, even if the TV is on or she is with her mum.

Whoop, you emptied the dishwasher, excuse us while we don't all fall at your feet and worship you.

You CHOOSE to answer emails at 5 am or 10 pm. You could institute some boundaries with work, but choose not to as you are far more important, clearly.

Take some responsibility, stop slagging off your wife here, especially if she's bloody reading it. (you were hoping we'd all say she just needs to move her arse and sort it weren't you)

Take a week off work. Look after your daughter while your wife has a real rest. See how you cope. Then come back here and tell us....

oh and unless, like the days when my mother worked in council housing and actually had to deal with things like gas explosions, and immediately housing people, it is NOT an emergency workwise

Right, this thread has turned into a downright nasty exchange by people who are obviously clueless. You can all accuse each other of sexism now without me.

Oh denial as you don't like how people have responded to you

CLASSIC

It doesn't sound like you appreciate your wife very much, or what she does.

I can only say this from my point of view, but the transition from working, having somewhere to go everyday and the self-worth from working to being a SAH parent can be quite a shock to the system. Even when you choose to stay at home. It's like your whole identity is wiped away. Add to that being made to feel like the housekeeper and a thoroughly unappreciated one at that - no wonder she's fed up, poor woman.
Of course, you wouldn't understand how this feels because life hasn't changed so monumentally for you, has it? Apart from maybe thinking that you have to do less.

What you said earlier about making sure she gets that time away to have a break, good plan. Being stuck at home with a baby and nobody to talk to can be so mind-bendingly boring.

Ok, my DH often doesn't see things like why leaving something in the sink rather than just putting it in the dishwasher, or leaving his coats/shoes/bags etc lying all over the place instead of putting them away drives me batshit. But he's great in other ways. He always does DD's bath and bedtime with me or on his own. He'll happily put washing away and do the gardening, and several other jobs that he knows I loathe.

I don't have to ask him. He just does them, because that's what you do as a partnership. If I don't feel like cooking, he'll do it. And yes, he too has an important job that requires working evenings and weekends fairly often. But me, DD and our happiness matter more.

It's that simple.

Did I really just see a flounce happen? Because he's not getting his own way?

Sheesh. Only kids sulk, OP.

Blimey, OP, you should see how harsh we are with each other if you think you've had a drubbing here.

A downright nasty exchange - like when you called me bitter?!

You demonstrably have no clue of the level of commitment that is really necesssary when you have a child. The responsibility goes far beyond that of any job. And there is no pay and no annual leave.

The vast majority of lone parents have to earn an income and meet all their childs practical and emotional needs. Since you're wealthy enough to be able to opt out of the former if you become a lone parent, you can clearly afford to pay for more help now. I suggest you do so, since you value your own time so much more than your wife's.

Stop offering and just do things. offering makes it seem like a favour. Just get on with it. You say she sees things sooner than you so just make sure you check.
For many people it works to have set jobs. So if laundry is exclusively for her to do then make cooking yours. It sounds like a miserable situation for both of you. But giving up won't make it better. And it does sound like you have given up.

Yup full on flounce sulk holdit since we're not agreeing with him....

No wonder your wife is depressed. You sound like a massive manchild who needs to feel better about himself by constantly going on about how demanding and Very Important his job is. When it sounds like any other job, really.

I tell her if there's something she wants me to do, all she has to do is tell me - I've never refused before.

That's not good. How would you get on at work if you had to be told to do everything? If you never used your own initiative to decide what to do, or your own memory to remember what needed doing, or your own observation to notice that something needed to be done, and instead you always relied on somone else to ask you to do it? How long would you survive?

And equally, how would it be if every time you did something on your own initiative your colleagues told you it was wrong? That's not good either.

This is a real man answer, but all I can suggest is that you find a system whereby certain tasks are exclusively yours, and she'll leave them for you, not do them and complain about it!

I don't think it's a "man answer" at all. It's the answer that works for DH and me. We have clearly defined areas of responsiblity. Sometimes that's "I do A and you do B" and sometimes it's "I do A at x'clock and you do A at Y o'clock" or "I do A on weekdays and you do A on weekends" Or whatever else. But clear boundaries.

Another thing that can help is that DH and I notice and thank each other for doing things. Including the things we do without fail every week or every day.

And one other thing that winds me up is that often when someone else does "my" job they only do that job and not the associated jobs. So if my DH washes the towels he doesn't put the fresh towels out. If he washes up the dinner things he doesn't also wash up all the other bits and bobs in the kitchen, so when he washes up after dinner that means I still have some washing up left to do. This isn't a snipe at DH - I am probably the same with some of the jobs that my DH usually does.

Actually your DW sounds quite unwell. The trouble with mental health problems is that the person who has them isn't an objective observer of their own mental state. A lot of people feel guilty or inadequate as if they "shouldn't" be depressed. Or they don't recognise some forms of depression - it can make people feel angry. People's internal mood monitor goes astray. Keep encouraging your DW to talk to the GP. It sounds far more as if she is minimising a real mental health issue than pretending a non-existent one.

I consider it my wife's work because she quit work, while I work a (more than) full-time job, which has me working weekends and evenings more often than I'd like.

Hm, that's not a good way to think about things. Your wife is also working a (more than) full-time job now. The way you have things running it must feel like her responsibility 24/7. You may work more evenings and weekends than you would like but you don't work 24/7. The fact that you are are having to work harder/longer than you expected means that the burden on her is greater than either of you expected. It doesn't mean that you are entitled to time off at her expense.

like when the baby's watching Teletubbies for 30 minutes, or when she goes early to her mom's to pick the baby up, and stays there for an hour extra. To me, these counted as rest times - to her, they didn't. Thus our expectations were misaligned.

Indeed. If your DW was watching TV by herself, or visiting her mother by herself, and someone else was supervising the baby, then yes she would be having a rest time. But she is still supervising the baby so she is not resting. This will feel especially strong to her if she has PND - she is showing signs of anxiety and part of that is a sense of always being "on alert".

If something were ever to happen to my wife, I do not expect to be able to keep my current job while raising my daughter. I will either quit, or hire help.

Something is happening to your wife. PND is "something". It may not be quite so extreme as the above, but the division of work that you have right now is failing. I don't know which is cause and which is effect but what you have is an unhealthy cycle. Pay attention to Biggreygoose it sounds as if he's been there and done that.

Yes, off you flounce. Go and complain about the nasty feminists pointing out that you're treating your wife like a slave in her own home. It's you who is clueless, most of us have seen this a hundred times before, and been expected to put up with it to boot.

You can either listen now and act, or you'll end up one of those bitter divorced men who complains that their wife was so awful because she didn't want to sleep with him, and he didn't feel loved, and had to find solace with another woman/ porn addiction / whatever, and then she just left him for no reason and took his house and all his money when she never even worked.

Ignore stupid comments OP.

All I can suggest is that you both need to own your own chores - bottles in the sink, who used them/put them there? They need to clean them.

Divide your chores equally as you both see fit and it's that persons responsibility to see it done.
Your daughter plays by herself and sometimes with you, that's OK, children need to learn to play by themselves anyway and you're still getting 121 time with her.
Agree if one of you thinks something needs to be bought, have a conversation about it and be rational.
Have a clear out of toys, you could get a sofa with storage.

Surely you don't need to see dishes in a sink to know that there will be dirty dishes after a meal that need washing, that every so often there will be baby bottles etc that need to be sorted out, that a meal needs to be cooked etc?

With regard to the toys, do you have anywhere separate to store things like a garage? Maybe you could have a big sort out of toys together, and ones your wife doesn't want to get rid of but your child has grown out of could go into that storage? And for goodness sake, don't get into arguments about that - there are things like my children's first rattles and babygros that I'm never getting rid of , I know it's irrational, but DH lives with it.

Glad you had a positive chat earlier OP.

Agree with suggestions about trying to work out a natural division of jobs. Especially you doing bath and bedtime with your daughter.

When DP was a SAHD he did the bulk of housework quite happily with no agenda or issues.
If things still don't settle down when you make some positive changes, I'd be looking at if her being a SAHM is sustainable in the long term.

If your wife has PND it isn't going to help her if she has to micromanage you in order for you to do anything around the house.

Do you even like your wife at all? Not a single part of any of your posts mentions any of her good points. You just seem to be concentrating on how defective she is.

Stop with the excuses!

There is stuff to do always stuff to do. Maybe challenge yourself to see if you can get it done before your wife does.

If you're not in the kitchen enough then you're shirking your responsibilities.

What tires me out more than running around putting stuff away or getting drinks food, or laundry etc IS the having to think about it all the time because no one else will think to put a wash on, sterilise bottles, put toys in box, take rubbish out and all the rest of it.

I agree with your wife about bedtime - don't spoil the routine to score some points.

Weekends we should both be doing housework - but as I've mentioned earlier without knowing how and when things are done, and without being given this information , my ability to do this work is severely diminished.

Ridiculous and you're making excuses. It's pretty obvious that when a meal is prepared, there are dirty dishes to be dealt with. That a baby wees/poos routinely, regardless of 'who smelt it first'. That rubbish is created daily. That laundry is a fact of life. You don't need to be 'told' these things, you don't need to 'see them' to know they exist. And it's a sorry excuse for not pitching in.

DH and I are retired and our DC are grown. We went through a bit of this (although we both worked FT after mat leave) when the DC came along and I noticed that I was doing the mummy- and the wife-work. I agree that as a SAHM her 'job' would be the majority of the housework and childcare, but I think you'll agree that in any workplace the job is to get the work done and if we see a co-worker needs help, it's the responsibility of the rest of the staff to pitch in and get it done, not to sit around until they sink and say 'But they didn't ask me!!'. How aggravating it is to hear a member of staff say 'But it wasn't 'my job'!!!' when a project fails or a goal isn't met! Cooperative labour is what makes for a successful business, and a successful home. And incentive and 'self-starting' is what makes a successful worker, and a successful spouse!

"the house has been in such a state that I honestly don't see the point of cleaning it
I'm confused! Earlier you said something to the effect that you don't notice when something needs dong?

@LilaoftheGreenwood you're right, fascinating indeed - thank you for the added perspective! That genuinely gave me something to think on.