To ask to know when something is bothering her?

[user1493024090]

Ever since our DD was born, it feels like my marriage has been getting shaky. It's reached the point where we now repeat the same argument every week: She claims I'm lazy and not helping out enough, I tell her if there's something she wants me to do, all she has to do is tell me - I've never refused before.

And here is the TLDR version:
I work one of those FT jobs where evenings and weekends don't mean I'm not working. I do work a lot from home, though, which means I get up most mornings to take care of DD for a couple of hours while DW gets ready. She, on the other hand, quit her job so she can be a stay-at-home mum (with my blessing). I usually finish work at 6pm, around her bedtime, so most working days I don't get to do much aside from shooting smiles at DD, and the occasional break.

DW is arguing that after DD goes to bed (or on days she stays at her grandmother's), she still has to do housework, and that I don't participate at all. On the other hand, whenever I offer to help with something, my offer is almost always rejected: I'm not allowed to touch the laundry (not that I messed something up in the past, I was never allowed), I'm not allowed to put DD to bed (because it will supposedly mess up her routine), and even when it's things I'm "allowed" to do, I'm still faced with rejections when I offer.

Naturally, I just stopped offering to help - instead, I told her, if she wanted help, I'm more than willing to do anything she asks of me. Apparently, this is unacceptable.

When DD needs her nappy changed, I should do it - even if she's the one who smelled it, and does it herself before I even notice. When the bottles are in the sink, clean them - even though I hardly spend time near the sink to see them, and she pops by to make tea every couple hours (another thing I don't do well-enough, apparently). It's not that I don't agree I should help with these things, but when she notices something needs doing and I don't, she just does it herself and gets angry at me the next morning. All I ask is that she tells me, instead of just getting angry about it.

DD plays nicely by herself (and completely ignores me while she does), and I don't spend most of the weekend sitting with her. That's not to say I don't play with her at all, just obviously not as much as DW would like.

I know I'm not a saint here, and that it IS possible for me to periodically leave whatever it is I'm doing and check if the sink is full, but I don't think it's very difficult to point it out to me, either. One of us is obviously being unreasonable, so we're out to seek advice from the internet.

Re all the outgrown toys, unopened boxes and unused shopping - what about storage? If you hire a room from Access or similar the 'stuff' can be out of the house at least. In the future you can decide what to do with it all. 'Trash, Donate, Keep' as Flylady.com advises to triage!
DD won't be in nappies for ever, the more you change them the quicker and easier it gets. You sound plenty intelligent enough to grasp how DW likes tea made and surprise her by making it. The same goes for basic cooking. Surely you can make your own lunchtime sandwich and and clear away afterwards? Be the master of the dishwasher!
Don't wait to be 'allowed' to do jobs in your own home, just do them.
Here's to happier days for all 3 of you.

We have a similar system. We both have jobs we naturally tend to.

I do the cooking, youngest DS pick up and drop off. Emptying dishwasher, Bins, OH does the school run, washing. She enjoys doing the garden. We'll both pitch in with the general tidying up.

So she got home and we started talking about it more calmly. I think we can boil it down to how much break she gets from work - time when I think she's resting, when she doesn't feel like she is - which eventually leads to expectations regarding how much work we're doing respectively. The unwillingness to 'nag' or 'be my mother', as you all put it, is really an extension of that - she thinks I'm fully aware how tired she is, when I watch her and think she's getting plenty of breaks. When I then take time off on the weekends, she gets upset that I'm the only one who gets any break.

So thanks to everyone for helping us get some perspective on this. Hopefully we can bring about a peaceful end to this particular argument :)

I see where you're coming from.

However, I see PND flags from your wifes behaviour. 'Playing the PND card' is a dickish thing to say. It reflects very badly on you and your concern for her.

So, get her to see the GP if she hasn't already as a priority.

I agree you need to take responsibility for different jobs. As far as possible, allocate according to what you both enjoy doing and do well.

"I tell her if there's something she wants me to do, all she has to do is tell me;
whenever I offer to help with something, my offer is almost always rejected:
I'm not allowed to touch the laundry
Naturally, I just stopped offering to help"

All this language you are using indicates a deep rooted belief that housework and chores are your wife's (a woman's?) responsibility, which you graciously offer to "help" her with. How tediously predictably old school sexist. Its a massive turnoff in every way possible to live with someone who views family/household responsibilities this way.

Housework isn't "women's work". Vaginas don't make you better at cleaning dishes. It's not your wifes responsibility to manage your contribution to housework and child raising.

Bit it does sound like there is a lot else going on in your relationship.

"The PND card? You're coming across like a pissy little arsehole."
you claim to be misunderstood, but if you have this attitude and express yourself this way, I'm really not surprised your DW is having issues.

Have you read this: mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

@BeMorePanda You've picked the absolute wrong person to make these suggestions to. I consider it my wife's work because she quit work, while I work a (more than) full-time job, which has me working weekends and evenings more often than I'd like.

She quit her job in order to look after your child though, not to clean and tidy after you. Her priority when you're working is your DD, any house stuff that gets done is a bonus during those times. If you work a lot in the evenings and weekends, it leaves little time for her to have a bit of time to herself.

It sounds like you think that she should be able to do lots more housework when she's also looking after your DD, is that right?

I consider it my wife's work because she quit work,

She quit her employment, to work looking after your child full time. Not to be your housekeeper.

while I work a (more than) full-time job, which has me working weekends and evenings more often than I'd like.

Come on, most jobs are like that now. You don't seem to start especially early, and you finish by 6.

@AssassinatedBeauty I don't expect her to do any more than she does, and I don't expect her to tidy up after me - I tidy up after myself. But we're talking about cleaning bottles and the veg steamer, that's baby's mess.

The issue here is that she isn't getting rest during periods when I think she is - like when the baby's watching Teletubbies for 30 minutes, or when she goes early to her mom's to pick the baby up, and stays there for an hour extra. To me, these counted as rest times - to her, they didn't. Thus our expectations were misaligned.

Talk all you want. She isn't going to feel better until her PND is being treated, and you get your arse in gear and start helping with the boxes and shit lying about (take them up to the attic maybe?)

And it also sounds like she desperately needs some adult time away from DD.

@Somerville I wake up and answer emails while still in bed, sometimes at 5-6am. I also get people messaging me well until 10pm when I go to bed, except for emergencies where I stay longer. It wasn't always like this, this time last year nobody would pester me before 9 in the morning. But like I said, my work's changed a lot too, since I had to take more responsibilities to cover for the missing income.

So you don't expect to have to wash up bottles or the steamer because it relates to the baby and that's all your wife's responsibility because she is currently a SAHM? Does that apply at the weekends too?

That's all very normal. Work emails have interrupted my MNing all day even though I've got the day off. It is not an excuse for not doing half the housework.
Indeed, many couples both work full time, and drop the DC at nursery. Then have to fit in all the kind of tasks you mention into evenings and weekends. Likewise, if you were separated then you would have to do all that work alongside looking after your DC whenever you had contact.

@Somerville Of course that works for couples who both work, but when taking care of the baby is your job, then I think cleaning up after her is part of the job description. Again, that is not to say she isn't, and that I shouldn't help, but this is why I consider it "helping" and not "my job".

@AssassinatedBeauty Weekends we should both be doing housework - but as I've mentioned earlier, without knowing how and when things are done, and without being given this information, my ability to do this work is severely diminished.

She did not "quit work"! She quit being paid for the work she does in order to prioritise the needs and welfare of other people. You'd do well to familiarise yourself with the difference.

What would you do if she got hit by a bus? Would you just stand there doing nothing until a more competent grown up told you what to do? Your wife doesn't have magic extra vagina eyes that she sees domestic chores with. Normal eyes and hands are all you need. Just get on with it ffs, and don't say dickish things like "pnd card".

this is why I consider it "helping" and not "my job".

I think you and your wife are going to consider having problems until/unless you rethink this attitude. The child is the responsibility of both of you. Therefore meeting her needs, including for a clean home, clothing, food, toys, entertainment, stimulation, education, love and a billion other things, is down to both of you. Not a "job" for one and "helping" for the other. If (God forbid) something happened to your wife, you'd have to do it all. That's the situation I found myself in - with 3 kids. And there was no point me moaning that I couldn't clean the house because I got work emails at 10pm. Other things had to give... That's parenting.

@Somerville If something were ever to happen to my wife, I do not expect to be able to keep my current job while raising my daughter. I will either quit, or hire help.

Yes, raising a child is a full-time job -- and people cannot be expected to work 2 of those, except in serious circumstances where no other choice is available.

I'm a woman and a mother and I'm on the OP's side. My partner would be on his wife's side. I don't think it's a man/woman issue. Anyway, best solution is to divide up the jobs between you so that each person can be responsible for their own areas. If it's a free for all and one person is naturally tidied than the other problems like this will always arise......

Tidier....

Oh I don't know why I didn't think of that - I should have given up work or hired help!

Your attitude stinks, and your message has changed massively from your OP... at least now it's clear why your wife calls you lazy and your marriage is shaky.

@Somerville I've tried to keep the original post neutral, without elements from "my side of the story", but as questions were raised I explained it from the only side I knew how. Obviously you live under very different circumstances - but that's what I would do in the event you have described.

Obviously working full time and raising a child has made you somewhat bitter against people who are not in that position. I don't envy you, and I understand the frustration you are expressing.

Yeah we're getting an insight into your attitude now alright.

She doesn't have a job. Just a bit of cleaning up after baby eh?
You have a very important job which is now more stressful because she does no work. This makes you a very important person.
She pretends to have PND when it suits her. Plays the PND card. You don't think she has it because I guess you're qualified to diagnose these things? You don't believe her because she's...a liar?
She goes shopping with your money which you earn (by replying to very important messages at 5am etc) You're angry when you find her purchases - for your baby.
You've classed her as a hoarder, when she probably hasn't got the energy to face tackling a mountain of stuff on her own with PND.

Have you considered:

She goes shopping because she's bored AF sitting in the house
She buys things for DD to enhance her quality of life
She NEVER gets a break from being a mum and slave in her own house
Her self worth is probably through the floor because you don't respect her because she doesn't go out to work, you think she lies about having PND, you resent her spending money and she now has nothing of her own
Her main adult company is you, a man child who can't even be trusted to do a load of washing without fucking it up.

Stop looking down your nose at the amazing woman who GAVE YOU A CHILD and get yourself together before she divorces you.

Joined just for this.

I have to say that your wife is showing massive flags of PND.

From experiance this is very difficult to deal with and my DW went through a similar stage of cutting me out of house work and simultaneously drowning under it. There were othere signs as well, almost exactly what you are saying is happening to you. I have a feeling this is a bigger issue than either of you are willing to admit. If she is screaming at you that she is fine, then things very clearly aren't. Stop listening to words and start listening to situations.

It took me months to convince DW there was a problem and even longer to get professional help. There is so much stigma associated with PND that it's very difficult to do this. It's only in the last 4 months or so that things have got much better with the help of medication (DS is just over 2) . Things are now much better and it's like having my wife back.

However. The place being in so much of a state that you don't know where to start... That's on you as much as it is your wife. No option but to step it up and get shit done I'm afraid. I also work a similar amount to you and the last thing I want to is house work, especially if I'm going to get criticised for it. Option of 1 though isn't it.

I found that getting DW off to the park with DS for an hour or so then absolutely smashing a few tasks like hoovering and bathroom/kitchen scrubbing and a load of laundry on a Saturday afternoon a good way of doing it. YMMV on that though.

Is it worth considering DW going back to work? Even if it only covers childcare it can break up the monotony. She sounds depressed to me.