To feel horrible and yet right about DH debt, holidays and ttc

[Fourbyfour]

My DH had debt issues that revealed themselves before we got married that sparked some trust issues but we worked through them. A year post wedding,
5k new debt came out of the woodwork (third of it fees alone for not paying back the expensive things he'd bought for his hobby on his credit card as he was paying half of our expensive holidays and was too ashamed to tell me he couldn't afford it).
DH is currently paying off his total £7k left of debt and I have full visibility of accounts if I require access and he is paying back agreed amounts on time monthly.

However As a result, we cannot afford to go on holiday this year at all, and there's no point me going on my own. I've travelled with friends a bit last year and it already raised questions with family and friends as to why I was holidaying separately from my husband.

Other than his shit money management, he's fab.

We are wanting to ttc but my safety instinct has kicked in that says he needs to clear debt first. I have the opposite money issues to him in that I'm petrified of never having enough savings.

AIBU to just want to scream IT'S NOT FAIR!! YOUR STUPID HOBBY HAS PUT OUR LIFE ON HOLD AND OUR PLAN TO START A
FAMILY AND/OR GO ON ADVENTURES HAS BEEN DELAYED BECAUSE OF YOUR STUPID SPENDING DECISIONS. I DIDN'T DECIDE TO SPEND MONEY WE DIDN'T HAVE YET I SUFFER AS MUCH AS YOU BECAUSE OF IT.

Safe to say, said hobby is now abandoned until debt is cleared.

A word of warning.
Learn by other people's mistakes.

My lovely mil died after being led a dog's life through years and years of debt by fil.
Her life was miserable.
She had nothing, literally nothing because of the continual bailing out of debt year in year out. All due to fils hobbies.
She could never afford to do anything on the house, go on holidays, have any kind of quality of life.

She was dragged through marries life by a selfish, stupid, self absorbed man, for years and years.....all because he was nice otherwise and then of course they had kids.
This did not stop him, he continued even though the children had nothing too. He still had his hobbies, credit cards and not a care of anyone else in the whole world.

She died with nothing, he still in debt, now dh takes care of his finances because otherwise he would lose the house within a year of her death.

Take heed, there is some good advice and warnings on here.

He hasn't sold everything and given up his passion - he has kept the most expensive, most valuable thing and I suspect is deliberately pricing it so it will not sell. After the bad money skills (difficult but manageable), the lying (very damaging) and now this game-playing of refusing to sell his bike, you have a clear indication of what he prioritises in your relationship. Up to you to decide whether you can live with that or not, but don't kid yourself that he is making enormous sacrifices. He isn't and he is deliberately deceiving you into thinking that he is.

I think the dealbreaker for me would be that he has lied not just once but twice. Are you going to forgive him the third or fourth time because it sounds like this is where you are heading.

Fourbyfour I am a bit torn on this. You are rightly upset about the debt but it does seem that there is a general lack of financial transparency between you.

Your DH's hobby wasnt a secret one. How did you think he was able to afford it?

You have a strong pull to save. How much saving will be enough?

Apologies if I have misread but it seems to me that if you pooled your resources you would have enough money to start to TTC but you dont want to because you want to punish your DH.

I can see that you want to be sure that your DH has turned over a new leaf but does this have to be a 2 year punishment? What happens if you have problems conceiving, that it takes longer than you expect?

Hi Op, I could have written your post a few years ago!!!

My dh is not good with money. His parents never taught him, they would always pay off his credit cards whenever he maxed them(!) If DH had money he spent it and didn't take into account that credit cards was not having money, it was borrowed money.

I realised that he hadn't learnt the value of money. When we got married I said we were adults and had to stand on our two feet. In the end what worked for us was I paid off the credit cards on the understanding that he cut them up and shut the accounts. We have a joint account and I have an isa in my name. We talked about the advantages of not paying interest on something. Slowly he started to realise the benefits of saving up for something using my isa (big things like holidays, things for the house etc) and also just generally becoming more independent away from the Apron strings of my mil (a whole other thread as she hates it!)

I'm delighted to say that a few years on we are stronger than ever, we have added to our family and my heart doesn't sink when a statement for the joint account comes in. He is much better with money now as he understands the value of it.

I understand you want to stand by him. Good luck 🍀

What Soul said.

Sounds like he could have afforded his quad biking out of his wages, possibly as well as a cheaper holiday or uk weekends away but it was the expensive holidays you wanted which pushed him back in to debt. Yes he should have told you he couldn't afford the holidays but what would you have said if he had? Accepted that or been angry he wouldn't give up quad biking instead.

You do sound on different pages regarding what you want to do in leisure time. Is there a reason why he shouldn't keep his bike and then when he's paid his CC off continue with his passion as well as building up more savings. You have one cheaper holiday together/UK weekends away and you then indulge your passion for more far flung expensive travel with likewise minded family/friends.

If you both need to give up those passions to put money aside for starting a family then it does need to be both of you.

Thanks HappyFlappy.
We will be and we already are.
I just wanted the OP to see what could happen down the line. Woman to woman I dont want anyone else to have to endure what I have. I truely hope her hubby is a good man who can learn and they can get through it. In life, you can be a good example...or a terrible warning..I thought I was the former..now I see,as the enabler, I was the Latter!
He will continue as he always has, and I am free of it now.TFFT.

P. S. I think it only worked because he had to be absolutely transparent. No lying and as he only had a joint account there was nowhere to hide

OP, your answer to posters' Q about whether he lied about the amount of debt pre marriage, and/or ran up more after the wedding was unclear.

In either case though, he needs to address his issues and yes, drop the price on that quad bike. The money was already lost when he spent ao much more than he could afford.

why miss out on holidays? Just tell people the truth: you can't go with him because he's in debt.

How old are you? If in your 30s I have more sympathy with your annoyance about ttc. But you knew about his issues and there was always a big risk they would continue.

I have a friend whose boyfriend had debt and gambling problems, which he was open about, they postponed marriage and ttc DC for several years as a result: he did sort it but they had fertility issues not helped by the wait.

So he couldn't afford to pay back his credit card because he was paying half for your expensive holidays and he didn't feel he could say that he couldn't afford it because of the credit card debt , because you would be angry or disappointed or whatever ?

I can understand your reluctance to pay off his current debt, given the history, however is not all money in your marriage 'family' money? If it is, I can't understand why you would have some savings and the debt.

It doesn't make financial sense, even if it is to teach him a lesson, how to manage, etc. You must be paying high interest on the debt which is meanwhile whittling away at the savings.

When dh and I moved in together I found out about his poor money management, he had debts on cc, hadn't been paying poll tax (we are that old!) and was behind on some bills. Paid bills by cheque/ had no direct debits. All encouraged by his mum.

I am a great believer that if you are partners/married everything is shared so his debts became our debts, his and my money became our money the day we moved in together. Everything was organised into direct debits, repayment of debits priorities from our money and a frank discussion about how large purchases would always be discussed first (the definition of a large purchase has changed as we have aged!).

I will never understand how one partner/spouse can be paying off debt independently. He over spent on a hobby and didn't wasn't to disappoint you when you wanted expensive holidays, all before you had joint money. Have a discussion about money and how you will manage it together, draw a line under it and move on, get the debt paid off with your family money, stop treating him like a naughty child who needs consequences as it is impacting both of you, and move on with both your lives.

Being crap with money doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, unless there are other red flags, so posters saying LTB - based on a tiny snap shot of someone' life, are being a little bit ridiculous imo. He's probably hidden it because he is ashamed, especially so if you are particularly good with money.

My parents were awful with money, which meant I in turn was dreadful with money leaving me with lots of debt in my twenties ccjs etc.. I would look away when withdrawing cash from the cash point, not pay any bills and ignore the piles of unopened bank letters. After a ccj for £200 left me unable to take out any kind of loan/credit for 6 years, these days I scrupulously pay bills and won't touch credit.

It's a learnt attitude that comes from the parents, and it can be changed if the person is willing. Unlike other posters relaying how they were burnt by ex partners etc. You are aware of his problem, you have got him to address it and he is actively working to resolve it. Unfortunately the knock on effect is that you can't have any joint holidays, or ttc until he's sorted it out.

Frustrating, but only you can decide if he's worth the wait. I definitely wouldn't bale him out, let him continue sticking to the budget, otherwise you are just doing what his parents did and he'll never learn to manage his money.

I do understand that it's the fact that he kept it from you that is the real issue but it doesn't sound like in your circumstances 5k of debt is going to be spectacularly difficult to deal with? You mentioned expensive holidays and he spent this money on non-essential hobby bits which can (and it sounds like now have) been curtailed. Presumably that means you can clear it relatively quickly?

I'm a bit rubbish with money to be honest. I wouldn't say I'm a terrible person though! If he's used to spending without really thinking it will take a while to change that but if that's his only real flaw I think it can be managed to be honest.

If he's paying interest then use savings to pay it off (which are then replenished) assuming that wouldn't leave you with nothing or do a 0% balance transfer.

I completely understand wanting to be in a good financial position before ttc but I do think it has to be a balance. How long I was prepared to put things off would depend very much on how old you are.

I am 34, Ds is 9 months. We had saved up enough to cover our mortgage payments for a year plus a bit extra to help out in the unpaid last 3 months. So far we have got by! We are going to Cornwall on holiday this year rather than abroad (we didn't go anywhere last year because I was pregnant and whale like!).

We will probably have to release money from the house to afford a second as we live in the pricy south east and I am returning to work part time. That combined with childcare costs will limit our ability to save. It's not ideal but I figure it's a temporary situation when the DC are small

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can always make more money and it doesn't sound like you're on the breadline anyway so I wouldn't put things off for too long! Good luck!

From your post, this doesn't sound like a partnership at all. The very fact he couldn't tell you he couldn't afford to pay to go on holiday so went anyway speaks volumes.

It's all about your what's, holidays, babies etc yet when he wants something it's bad.

The control of money seems to be an issue as well, you see buying him osmething as rewarding him as though he's a child. If your money is very much yours, what happens on maternity? I'm guessing suddenly his will become family money in an instant as it suits then.

He was wrong to cover up debts but the strange dynamics don't make it that hard to see why he did.

I feel your pain.
I've helped my DH organise his finances numerous times but he cannot spend within his means and always slips back into these habits. I've been married 14 years and it's not going to change. I've resigned myself to this.
Be prepared for this OP....people find it difficult to change. My MIL is exactly the same!

I know a lot say, this is a trust issue, he won't change, he'll do it again etc.

I'm coming from the other side as I've done this! Not proud of it, know I should have told DH, but I was ashamed of the debt and of not having told him before. Full disclosure - I have managed to build up debt a few times in my life, mainly through wanting a more expensive lifestyle than I can afford.

But, wanted to say to OP, for all the people saying leave him, you're justification that he is good in many ways but just crap with a credit card is pretty much how I am. Ive sorted it out a couple of times and am now much better - he can be too. Thank you for helping me understand better how I made my DH feel.

rainbows having family money is different when there's a dependent child. Of course he should contribute to maternity etc.
But paying off a debt whilst one person is scrimping and saving and the other is indulging themselves is unfair.

Never borrow what you can't afford to pay back is basic common sense surely? Financial compatibility should not be underestimated. Really hope you work through things. Personal experience tells me it'll be an uphill struggle.

AtSea it doesn't sound like the Op was scrimping though. She informed him he had to give up his hobby and pay off the debt he accrued paying towards expensive holidays she wanted and then went on holiday with friends without him. Not just once but multiple times so I can understand family questioning that tbh.

From the info here he always paid the necessary household bills etc.

I am pretty shit with money day to day. I can work out a budget, switch to good deals etc but I am a fritterer.

I think the fact that he was afraid to tell you he couldn't afford a holiday leapt out at me. Maybe he would rather have his quad bike than a holiday? That's perfectly OK. Similarly, if your main concern is what your friends think that too is a bit odd. If you love him and want to go on holiday with him that is up to you, it isn't up to you to punish bad behaviour etc...You are his partner not his parent.

YANBU to be upset. Especially if, as it sounds like from your description of assets and lifestyle, you're in your 30s. It's a big deal to be forced to wait to TTC- although that said, depending on how long it's going to take him to clear it, you may well be able to TTC soon. If eg he has 11 months left, you could try now.

I don't necessarily take the view that I'd LTB, though I'd see it as an absolute betrayal and would be putting into place a lot of safeguards. However, I find the fact that he's not sold the most expensive one a worry. Everything will sell if you price it low enough. If you don't believe me, I'll give you a tenner for it. He must know this, which makes me think he's not as committed to paying off the debt asap as I would need him to be in order to maintain the trust between us.

So no yanbu.

Also, a lot of people are saying it would be fine for him to prefer quad biking to an expensive holiday. Which is true, but that's not what happened is it? He decided on option C- having both.

Maybe he just wants to keep his quad, his wife gets what she wants so why should he have to give up everything to please her. Marriage is not just about one person.

Imagine if a man came on and said his wife was to be punished for over spending on a holiday she didn't dare tell him she couldn't afford and he now expected her to sell everything and would holiday with his friends instead as he couldn't possibly reward her bad behaviour.

She says he was afraid to tell her he couldn't afford it. I can well imagine feeling like that.