To think she should have informed me her kids are unvaccinated?

[InMemoryOfSleep]

I went to antenatal yoga with a lovely teacher, who then visited my house with her two children once my baby was born. I also attended her baby group several times with my DS, and her children were also present.

I've just found out that she's an anti-vaxxer, and I cannot stop thinking about the fact that she exposed my tiny baby to her unvaccinated kids, without my knowledge! AIBU to think she should have informed me before bringing her kids to my house, knowing my baby was too young to have been vaccinated yet?

And what about all the babies at the group - I get that it's her personal choice to not vaccinate (though I am vehemently against it) but as she is acting in a professional capacity surely she should be informing parents that her unvaccinated children will be there? I certainly would have thought twice about taking my DS before his vaccinations.

prh47 i think that is a bit hopeful re immunity. When there has been a localised measles outbreak i remember parents being encouraged to get the MMR early.

Also there are outbreaks of measles in Europe at the moment. Personally I just was not willing to be so cool about non vaxxers.

There is a difference between going about day to day life and working with pregnant women and babies in a professional capacity.

I don't expect your average person to have their hepatitis vaccinations. I damn well want my health care providers to

In France it is common to give separate measles/mumps/rubella vaccine early because children start nursery earlier - not because all British children magically have more protection till they are over 1.

Disastronaut you are right that if only people who couldn't be vaccinated, weren't vaccinated, the herd immunity would protect them (and pre-vaccination babies).

But because some people think fairies will protect them (and a few people move around, have learning disabilities, or otherwise fail to get a vaccination they aren't opposed to in principle), it doesn't work as well as it could.

I'm pro vaccine but I don't think she needs to walk around declaring it to everyone she meets that her kids aren't vaccinated if they're aren't currently showing symptoms of measles, etc. Plenty of older generation people haven't been vaccinated but they don't have to hide away and never see babies

I don't think you are being unreasonable OP, she shouldn't really be working with pregnant women or babies when she poses a clear risk. She has made her own decision not to vaccinate with her own informed opinions but she is not allowing the people she works with to make an informed choice about exposure because she is concealing her choices.

Before they are vaccinated babies are very vulnerable, older people such as grandparents who haven't been given the vaccine will probably developed their own immunity through contracting the virus at some stage in their lives, exposing babies to this is a much lower risk than exposing a baby unvaccinated children before they have developed their own immunity. However my blood tests when pregnant showed that although I had had the MMR I didn't actually have immunity to rubella so had to have the mmr jab the day after I had DD before they would let me leave the hospital. So the vaccines don't always work, and they do 'run out' eventually, but that isn't the same as someone knowingly exposing people to this, I didn't actually do any antenatal classes so never exposed anyone else to the risks but I feel a bit sick knowing that I could have done.

People shouldn't be flaming the OP, she isn't wrapping her baby in cotton wool and making it live in a bubble, just annoyed that she wasn't given the choice to lower the risk to herself and her baby because she wasn't told about the yoga teachers views. People were annoyed when the found out they were eating horse meat when they thought it was beef, it is a similar sense of violation, but vaccines and babies have much more serious consequences than just being upset you've eaten a cute little pony.

We have friends who are antivaxxers, and I respect their choice, but they do keep their dcs away from ours when they are ill and only visited after our baby had had her jabs. This to me is the way it should be, if you have chosen not to vaccinate you need to take additional measures to ensure that your choice doesn't affect others, especially when the consequences are so severe if something was to happen.

If she has a website or Facebook page or online reviews of any sort I would post so that other mothers can be aware of the risk and make their own decision about whether to use her services when fully informed of the facts. No need to be nasty, just tell the truth, you will be protecting mothers and babies by doing so. Even if the risk is low, many wouldn't want to take it, and I don't think that is unreasonably PFB tbh

www.immunizeusa.org/blog/2016/september/24/vaccine-shedding/

Vaccine shedding is the way viruses spread so unvaccinated babies also shed viruses if they are infected.

Only 3 of the vaccines contain live viruses and with chickenpox the number whove caught it from vaccinated babies is 11 from a total of 50 million vaccinated.

So its a bollocks idea seized on by anti-vaxers who are very picky about the science they quote.

YANU, the argument that your child will come into contact with unvaccinated children their whole life is totally irrelevant. Of course this will happen when your dc is older and has the protection of vaccine.

The issue here for me is that you are talking about a new born baby and frankly I would want to be made aware if a professional was bringing unvaccinated children into my house in your situation.

When ds was born DH had a horrible cold and the midwife told us not to worry as ds would benefit from my antibodies for a time. Newborn babies are not especially vulnerable because of the immunity passed from the mother, especially if you breastfeed.

However, my understanding (which may well be wrong) is that you only pass on natural immunity, so if you had the measles illness, you would pass on the antibodies but not if you were immunised.

Anyway, I think the OP is being a bit silly since anyone can have any illness and there is no guarantee that you had a disease as a child because you were not immunised. I did have measles, rubella and mumps (and chicken pox) but I never had whooping cough despite not being immunised against it. So adults could pass things on just as easily as a child. And some children are immunised but still get the disease.

Lots of hysteria on this thread.

I think any snotty-nosed kid is a germ factory, regardless of whether they were immunised or not.

When there has been a localised measles outbreak i remember parents being encouraged to get the MMR early

Of course. If mum doesn't have immunity the baby won't either. Immunity inherited from mum can wear off early. And it does no harm to give a child a vaccination they don't actually need, so better safe than sorry. But most babies would have been fine if they had waited to have the vaccination at the normal time.

Yeah but tbh my pov was that you will of necessity hear reports of an outbreak only after a number of children have fallen ill. In my case I didn't want my brother's school age children playing with my unvaxxed baby.

If you worry about others ''exposing' themselves to you and your baby, you should expose yourself to others, to protect yourself and your baby.

We do not live in a world where it is a legal requirement to expose this information and so if there is any information that you feel is vital for you and your baby, be explicit of your concern and ask people in advance.

There are two adults in this situation, with two different views, and you are one of them; neither person can be vilified for acting wrongly. Act like an adult, not a baby and deal with concerns upfront.

Whilst you don't believe her way is right, she likely doesn't agree with yours either. It is not about who is right and who is wrong, you can agree to disagree.

Vaccinated children can still catch and spread disease, it doesn't make a bubble around our kids it just results in a milder case for them. It can still spread to anyone else, and indeed because they're vaxed and have milder symptoms they could be more likely to spread illness without knowing. Whooping cough in particular is carried silently after being vaccinated.

The shedding issue is different, but i've not come across any parent who warns others that their kids have just had the flu or MMR or pox vax and so can't see them for X amount of time. The only one i know who'd just had the pox vax was because we caught the pox after seeing them and they brought it up.

Breastfeeding is protective for months and the chance of her kids having a rare disease is unlikely. It's not like all the kids and adults who didn't develop the antibodies or who don't have all the vaccines upto date are walking around harbouring disease all the time.

Disagree cats. I think nit vaccinating is irresponsible and wrong

I am 100% pro vaccination and think that everyone should be vaccinated (health permitting).
However you are BU. Small children are the carriers of all sorts of germs - most of which you cannot vaccinate against. It is not advised for a newborn to catch chicken pox, but the vast majority of people are not vaccinated against this (unless you live in a country where it is part of the vaccination programme).
So these visiting children could have been vaccinated to the hilt and still passed chicken pox or cold/flu germs on to your newborn.

So because chickenpox is a risk the op shouldn't take steps to reduce exposure to measles?
Not sure I follow the logic.
Is it also the case that because everyone on a bus might have a cold we should take our newborns to visit relatives suffering TB?

Yanbu

The rotavirus vaccine is live and sheds. It's why you're told to be extra vigilant about hand washing after nappy changes after they've been given it.

YANatallBU She's irresponsible as well as stupid.

I think it's up to you to be clear about any rules regarding visitors to your home. So if you only wanted vaccinated children around your new baby it's your responsibility to check.
People shouldn't have to tell you on the off chance you do or don't mind.

I understand why you're cross and why you don't want to expose your newborn. But I think it was your responsibility to check who was coming to see dc.

Just to add, I've been on the other end of it, too. I chose not to vaccinate my youngest against rotavirus because it wasn't available when my eldest was born and I didn't want t them to catch it.

I had a friend come with her baby to my house, change a massive shitty nappy on my sofa then not wash her hands and touch all my door handles etc and expose both my kids to the virus.

nit vaccinating. If only there was such a thing

I think it's up to you to be clear about any rules regarding visitors to your home

The thing with this argument, is that there are a lot of things we wouldn't bother to state 'rules' about because they are simply the norm in our society, vaccination being one of them. It's like saying you should stipulate 'You can only come in if you're not going to murder us.' You wouldn't think to say that as it is the norm not to murder. It is the norm to vaccinate so we don't think to be clear about our 'rules' on this.

NameChange that's exactly it - I think there's more than an 'off chance' that many people wouldn't be happy with it.

NameChangeInCasePeopleRecogn

Exactly. Some things are commkn sense.
I invite people in and assume they're not going to trash my house, I have people round and assume they haven't come straight across having puked their guts up.

Common sense.

YANBU.

She is an ignorant irresponsible dipshit.