Welsh wedding invitation.

[Spikeyplant]

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

Again, who is forcing it on you? you've not answered that question.

And obviously i'm not saying you can't have a decent job without welsh, but it is a useful skill in a lot of professions.

The Welsh in the workplace Act? I now have to answer my phone with a Welsh greeting.
My email signature has to be bilingual.
I'd call that forcing.
My children having to take Welsh GCSE, I'd call that forcing..

My thoughts are with you at this time of hardship Over, how awful that you have to make first-language Welsh speakers feel as welcome and valued by your organisation as first-language English speakers :(

I can guarantee that the number of first language Welsh speakers where I work is minimal. I only know of 1 in the whole organisation

Perhaps they don't feel welcome enough to apply, Over?

I said I don't come from Norfolk but I had learned to be bilingual.

SpreadYourHappiness said Unless you spoke another language besides English, you weren't bilingual. Strong accents do not count as another language.

I was being funny (or trying to be). Round here, people talk of the Norfolk dialect as if it's a different language. And they do laugh at themselves.
Some years ago when I lived in Norfolk, I was listening to the local radio when a woman, who had moved from London ten years earlier to start a business, was being interviewed. She was asked (disingenously) how she coped with the language barrier. She replied that it was difficult to start with and she had to ask people to write things down, but she worked hard to learn the language and was now completely bilingual. I was laughing so much, I nearly drove off the road.

This is a genuine sign written in the Norfolk dialect. See how you get on.

I am multi-lingual by the way, SpreadYourHappiness, not including Norfolk

Typical Welsh speaking Welshies imo.... Coming from a non Welsh speaking Welshie

I'n with you over
The issue I have with Welsh is that there's no continuity throughout the country. Some counties are compulsory Welsh only primary schools, some counties are not.

so this 'forcing' consists of an email signature, and a greeting. hardly like being sat in a classroom and beaten for daring to speak English, is it Over? Do behave.

dressmeup why is that an issue? If you'd rather your child not be educated in welsh, educate them in a county where English Medium schools exist. there are plenty of them.

I am really proud that my dds are fluent welsh speakers. They talk in their sleep in welsh, they switch easily between welsh and english. The other added bonus to being bilingual is that it makes learning other languages, any other languages, easier. The brain is wired up and ready. There are many careers where welsh is an advantage, if you want to stay living in wales. Medicine, and any health care work, including working with the elderly, with young children (I know many children who didn't speak much ,or any, english until they were six or seven). Any sort of job that involves working with the public, media, local government, among many other careers. When my father was dying it really helped that he had medical staff who could speak to him in welsh as he reverted to his first language. This was also true of many of the old ladies in my mother's care home, as dementia took hold, there were several who couldn't speak in english any longer.

I said It doesn't happen with any other language, in my experience.

Gwemhwyfar said Then your experience is quite limited. Look at French speakers in Canada in relation to English and Dutch (Flemish) speakers in Belgium in relation to French. Most Flemish people speak very good French, but they will not take it very well if you just assume they're French speakers.

Well, that was a bit of a pompous comment. I speak seven languages and have lived extensively in Europe. The issues concerning Belgium and Quebec are rather different to those in Wales

In Belgium it is much more of a political issue based around the language spoken, rather than the use of the language issue itself. Also French and Flemish are roughly equally spoken (although there are more native Flemish speakers in the French part than the other way round); German is a minority language and of course English is widely spoken. Particularly in tourist areas, most locals seem happy to speak any of those four languages to you especially if you are spending money.

Colleague who has lived in Quebec says that nearly all the population speak French fluently or very well and relatively few speak good English. Very different to Wales. There are also major economic and cultural differences.

SirVixofVixHall it isn't always that young people have to move away to find work. Sometimes they have to move away because second-homers and English retirees/goodlifers have priced them out of the housing market
Sadly this is happening all over the place. When I lived in North Norfolk, this was a big problem. People moved to a picturesque working fishing port and then complained when the boats went out at four in the morning. Housing prices went through the roof but there were also very few jobs. Most young people moved to Norwich or King's Lynn both for work and accommodation.

DP's family still live in North Wales and talk a lot about these sort of issues. They are very worried about when EU money stops coming in post Brexit and how it is going to affect jobs and investment generally.

As an English person I find it really bizarre that there are Welsh people who have no interest in speaking their country's language. Being bilingual is so advantageous why wouldn't you want it for yourself and your children. But then, I'm from a part of England with a distinctive dialect which I would hate to see die out.

Interestingly, I was recently speaking to a Welshman who is learning Welsh as an adult, married to a Welsh speaker, with a child being raised in Welsh medium education. He reckoned that if all schools were to become Welsh medium then the country would be bilingual in a couple of generations. However, I imagine that the schools will only be able to gradually switch over to Welsh medium as the country gets enough Welsh speakers going into teaching to staff these additional schools.

I think they probably thought it was a bit of fun and you could use google translate.

I think they shouldn't be left out of the fun so send your reply in Japanese.

"In Belgium it is much more of a political issue based around the language spoken, rather than the use of the language issue itself. "

Eh? You want to explain that?

"Also French and Flemish are roughly equally spoken "

Not really. Most Flemish people can speak French as a second language and most Belgian French speakers don't speak much Dutch. There's quite an imbalance. Your initial point was that Welsh speakers are the only ones to sometimes resist speaking in the surrounding dominant language. My argument is that it also happens elsewhere. It's not really about the numbers.

"As an English person I find it really bizarre that there are Welsh people who have no interest in speaking their country's language."

Colonisation.

2010 Aussie- yes, I'm worried about the impact of brexit too.

Gwenhwyfar at the moment Brazil feels like it's collapsing in on itself due to the true depth of its rotten corrupt core, but I know what you mean. My son got an early GCSE in Portuguese as do most British-Brazilian/Portuguese children. It is not in itself useful, other than the fact that, with the exception of other bilingual children, he will have an extra GCSE than most English children. It's a shame that others don't see the advantage of that

Ovaries - welcome to Scarlets town! I say paned even though I'm a southie, drives DH bonkers every time the kettle goes on!

As an English person I find it really bizarre that there are Welsh people who have no interest in speaking their country's language

Colonisation

It feels as though this whole debate has basically just become an anti/pro Welsh (or even anti-English) debate, which is a shame because the original question had nothing to do with the reasons why Welsh is not spoken as much since the English forced them not to (or the other 'reasons' which seem to have popped up defending the bride and groom's decision to send out invitations to people who do not speak that language).

Of course if you state that you think it would have been courteous to ensure your guests could understand the invitation, all of a sudden you must be a colonialist, an oppressor of the Welsh language, 'one of those English people who expect everyone to speak English in foreign countries' or even (as I read earlier) pro-Brexit. In my case (and many others I have read), this could not be further from the truth. But the pro-Welsh speakers here don't want to hear it and it's easier to lump us all in together and assume that agreeing facilitating your guests' comprehension is tantamount to Welsh-hating. Why can there not be a middle ground?

Why can I, a non-Welsh speaking English person (who speaks 5 languages as it happens), agree that Welsh should be spoken and taught as a matter of course in Wales, that being bilingual gives you an edge (regardless of the language), that there needs to be a push towards reinvigorating the language and the desire for Welsh people to want to speak it... but if I state that it would have been courteous to include a small translation I must be one of 'those people' mentioned above.

Massive defensiveness on this thread which has nothing to do with the original question.

needmymouthsewnup Very well said. I couldn't agree more (except I do not speak 5 languages! I used to speak 3, but I lost my way unfortunately).

Well, as the OP seems to have left pages ago, and so no one knows if the lack of translation was even deliberate the conversation has moved on. If it was a deliberate intended snub not to send an invitation in English, then yes I feel that's weird and not nice. But, as I and lots of others have said, is not more likely that it was either accidentally left out, mixed up with an English version, or sent just in Welsh thoughtlessly as opposed to maliciously?
I think what has made people defensive is the idea that Welsh speakers are exclusionary, horrible people who set out to upset others. I think most people would feel a little defensive at being thought of in those terms, no?

Get over yourself. Hth.

Thank you Coco ooh that's a relief, I can forgive many things but panad is an institution

I would be a bit perturbed.
but I also think they are demonstrating it is a traditional welsh wedding. can you handle this? all welsh, translate for the info.
toss a coin to decide whether you go or not.
in tossing the coin you will know what you hope for.
we usually decide based on who will be there that we know to have fun/ dance / get drunk with.