AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

[olddogsnewtricks]

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

I do think the current system of Welfare needs to be far more flexible and able to adapt quickly and cleanly with people's changing circumstances Helena the fact that it can't in this day and age is shameful.

I think the system is very difficult when getting extra hours etc. No one can be blamed for making it work for them. But a system has to both reward and encourage people to take care of themselves.

Despite finding the current Tories far too centrist even, I do agree with scary that benefits should for most people be a stop gap - the one year until you get another jobs and back on your feet. I think IDS did say most people who lose their job get back into work within a year. That is similar to the system we had in the past where your benefits were far and away higher if you had contributed in by way of NI than if you were just on very low supplementary benefits. we seemt o have lost that reap what you sow, paying in, Beveridge scheme that a lot of continental Europe has managed to retain.

I have voted for each of the three 'main' parties but tend to lean towards the Tories.... This apparently makes me sub-human scum with genocidal hatred towards the poor and disabled according to some one here...

Why do I tend to vote Tory? Because they promote individual responsibility over state responsibility, and society functions best, and people are more likely to flourish, when individuals take responsibility for their own lives. As real life experiment after experiment has shown, Socialist societies just don't work. Yes, capitalist ones are imperfect and have many faults, but it is the rise of capitalism from the Renaissance which has transformed society, dramatically improving lives, even for the poorest (the poorest 10% today are immeasurably better off than the poorest 10% in Victorian times!) I also believe there needs to be a safety net, but then so do the Tories - I don't always agree where the Tories draw the line but the poorest and most vulnerable are supported by the state.

The issue that sticks in my mind that illustrates why I don't vote Labour is the spare room subsidy/ bedroom tax....
Whereas there were arguments that it's introduction was unreasonably harsh for some with particular issues, and that more money should have been provided to address these special cases, Labour didn't focus on this, but used these special cases to argue against the entire policy! Few things exemplify an overweaning welfare state than using public money to support those who can't afford housing using their own means to have a house with more bedrooms than they need! I never had a spare bedroom when I was growing up, and didn't until very recently... and we never took or expected to take a penny in housing benefit, so why on earth should I think it reasonable for a policy to exist that paid the housing costs of those who did have a spare room!

(the poorest 10% today are immeasurably better off than the poorest 10% in Victorian times!)

Very telling that youve had to go back that far. Its an argument that would still be used if it was the 1930s or 1940s. But i think you know that you couldnt have said todays poor are better than those in the 1930s given that the poor housing of this era has been making a comeback for quite some time.

.... yet Labour, especially Corbyn's Labour does. The mantra of "no ifs, no buts, no public sector cuts" says it all. Socialism infantilises the public, lead to belief that the State will sort out their lives, which leads to economic inertia, and the inability to deliver on their utopian dream as it inevitably collapses in recrimination and disappointment.

But i think you know that you couldnt have said todays poor are better than those in the 1930s given that the poor housing of this era has been making a comeback for quite some time.

I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense... I could have equally said the 1930s. Life expectancy has increased by over 20 years since then (late 50s to early 80s) and infant deaths have dropped exponentially, housing conditions are poor for some today, but they pale into insignificance against the slums of the 30s.... I could go on.

Nearly 40,000 people live in the Gorbals. They live four, six, eight to a room, often 30 to a lavatory, 40 to a tap. They live in Britain’s most abandoned slum.

By the way, this was from 1948 report, not a 1848 report.

They had it easy in the Gorbals, because there was a time earlier in history that was worse, so we shouldn't do anything about anything.

It doesn't mask the fact that people like me, highly qualified and experienced are using food banks and had one tin of foodbank sweetcorn for my 'evening meal' when we are in one of the richest and most educated nations on the planet.

Its absolutely shameful.

coconuttella deliciously mental.

We have not had tory dominance over the way our society works, we have had labour correcting it, we've had our common law particularly in employment law strengthened and tested by labour movements and union activity which accelerated our performance across the board, particularly in the 1960s and 1970s but reaching back a long way before that.

And if you want to see the result of the most extreme capitalist society on earth, look to the USA and its vast areas of extreme dirt poverty, its vast amounts of street homeless, disabled and paralysed people with simple diseases who can't afford healthcare, massive drug problems caused by people trying to work two or three jobs throughout the night and getting addicted to meth just to keep in accommodation, thousands and thousands of murders a year, extreme inequity of opportunity and wealth, and horrifically low standards of education.

We are far more socialist than you realise - because you think 'socialist' is like North Korea or something. Sad.

They had it easy in the Gorbals, because there was a time earlier in history that was worse, so we shouldn't do anything about anything.

That's not what I'm saying... I'm not arguing that people aren't in poverty today, or that we shouldn't be doing more as a society to sort that.... But rather that capitalism has enabled things to improve overall, and socialism just doesn't deliver.

We are far more socialist than you realise.... and yet we've had 7 years of Tory rule!.... that's because the Tories don't offer unconstrained capitalism.

www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-182f-Return-of-the-slumlords#.WPfRuIjyuyI

God. Governments don't start from scratch each time.

YY Reddogs I do not for one minute believe that the technology isnt there.

It is the will that is not there.

The taxes in the UK are a complete mess. It was obvious that they were going to call a snap election when they pulled back the self employment tax changes.

I would never vote for labour because of their leadership but might end up doing so because our local MP is labour and actually very good. Truth be told there isn't much between him and the Tory. Both are from upper middle class backgrounds. I just want the MP who can help me and people like me the most.

(I need help making sure my Dad is getting the NHS care he needs. PFI was from labour and I will never Ever forgive them for that.)

I vote Tory because I have done my research and it's the best in my opinion. I like TM and think she's doing a great job. I want brexit too.

I'm fed up of Tory bashing. It's disgusting. It's a democracy. I find that the lib dem and lab voters are pushing me further to vote Tory. They hate their own leaders but wonder why anyone would vote Tory! all this name calling really turns me off too. I'm not thick, I'm just "normal" whatever that is, my husband is a small business owner and my family work in education and NHS. Still going to vote Tory and this thread has just further confirmed my decision.

All the name calling turns you off Lime?

Good Then you will strongly object to David Mundell calling Yvette Cooper a bitch at PMQs today.........simply for asking a question.

' Few things exemplify an overweaning welfare state than using public money to support those who can't afford housing using their own means to have a house with more bedrooms than they need! I never had a spare bedroom when I was growing up, and didn't until very recently... and we never took or expected to take a penny in housing benefit, so why on earth should I think it reasonable for a policy to exist that paid the housing costs of those who did have a spare room!'

It really annoys me when people can't see how disingenuous Tory policy is. And this post above illustrates this. They will say 'nobody should have more bedrooms than they need'. Sounds fair enough but then these people could not move to smaller houses/flats even if they wanted to because they often did not exist. You could have a situation where a single person was living in a 2 bed flat and could not be moved to a 1 bed place because the provision didn't exist. It's just a way to screw money out of people who they knew full well would many of whom not be able to move in practice.

Maths fans:
This will help

Hmph you guys are just practice for when the revolution comes!

Hail Julius Corbyn!

Henceforth all leaders will be called 'Corbyn'

Nicola Corbyn of the North.

Oh behave

Well I think we are in the blasted 1%. But I still wouldn't vote Tory. It's ideological, isn't it?