Soya "milk " advice needed please

[Bananasandchocolatecustard]

I have decided to stop using milk because of the cruelty in the dairy industry. Which soya "milk" would be best to use with tea/coffee and cereal - sweetened or unsweetened?
TIA

Coconut milk smells and tastes just like concentrated coconut (aka concentrated evil imo).

Femelle - the cruelty I referred to was the practise of keeping cows in constant lactation, and the removal of the calves.

yep I can see why that wouldn't work and I quite like coconut but there are limits

Coconut milk is available in Starbucks but it's a bit extra.

I would advise anyone cutting dairy to try to minimise their soya intake as it can get high quite easily. 70% of soybean production does go to farming animals but I still try to keep mine low. Luckily there's so many different kinds of milks that I tend to only use a carton a fortnight or so, I'm happy with that.

Another thing to watch out for is palm oil - it's in all kinds of things unfortunately. If anyone wants product recommendations in particular I've spent a long time looking into this kind of thing and I'm always happy to PM

Koko coconut milk is good for anything sweet, and has added calcium. For savoury things - like making a fake cheese or white sauce for lasagne, I use oat milk.

I'm very happy to believe it's probably soya

People are very happy to believe in a lot of things, that has no bearing at all on whether it is actually true or not.

Oatmilk is better imo, it's thicker.

That was a typo Chai as I said in my next post. I meant the opposite!

I've just started massively cutting down on dairy after being vegetarian for 2 years. I don't really drink hot drinks but have been using almond milk in my cooking (for white sauces etc.) and haven't noticed any difference in taste to when I used cows milk.

If you're on Facebook, there's a page called 'Bosh' which does really good vegan recipes - I made the katsu curry the other day and it was DELICIOUS.

It's quite unbelievable how many people have told me that 'cows lactate naturally without being pregnant/ nursing' or that 'cows would be very unwell if no one milked them'

Soy is problematic, true. I use Sojade organic soya milk with calcium. It genuinely tastes lovely and is produced in France. I have to order it on line tho' as can't find a local stockist. Oat milk is great in some coffees, especially ones with a high acid content (where soya milk often curdles, lovely!)

Here is some info about pus levels in milk (which are regulated in the US), from Michael Greger MD (NYT bestselling author):

"According to the USDA, 1 in 6 dairy cows in the United States suffers from clinical mastitis, which is responsible for 1 in 6 dairy cow deaths on U.S. dairy farms. This level of disease is reflected in the concentration of somatic cells in the American milk supply. Somatic cell counts greater than a million per teaspoon are abnormal and “almost always” caused by mastitis. When a cow is infected, greater than 90% of the somatic cells in her milk are neutrophils, the inflammatory immune cells that form pus. The average somatic cell count in U.S. milk per spoonful is 1,120,000."

There is also the cruelty of veal which is a direct result of the dairy industry. Calves are removed almost immediately from their mother's which is incredibly distressing for mother and baby. The female calves are fed and grown up to become dairy cows at 13 months old I think, destined for a life of repeated artificial insemination, ie fist up vagina, resulting in a permanent state of pregnancy and lactation with all subsequent babies removed. The male calves are grown for a short while then killed at a few months old. When dairy cows stop producing good amounts of milk they are killed way before their natural life span. Sounds pretty cruel to me.

Soya isn't particularly ethical in Production terms either,
we have to use non dairy and chose to use use koko or oatly fwiw as best source of all proteins etc
Are you giving up dairy entirely because it's in everything! I support anyone's choice but many people who 'don't do dairy' seem to happily eat slot of stuff it's concealed in- eg 50% wine for a start!!

Lots (prob most) of soy is grown to feed to cattle. There is a rice dream with almond which i find neutral tasting

What dairy is in wine? I presume you mean animal products which are in wine (ie. Isaglass to clarify the wine)

I thought it was only isaglass too, which comes from fish I believe, but looking it up stuff made from milk can be used too.

This site has some interesting stats: www.soyatech.com/soy_facts.htm

I find it difficult to decide which sub milk to go for, as coconut/rice/almond etc isn't exactly local and I'm tired of the 'You're killing the planet with your tiny amount of soy' brigade. Oat milk is ok I suppose. I may end up having to - gasp - go without

Here is some info about pus levels in milk

Oh god. Pus, you say?!

When a cow is infected, greater than 90% of the somatic cells in her milk are neutrophils, the inflammatory immune cells that form pus.

So... not pus, then? Won't be buying the book.

Almond milk is disastrous for the environment too - it takes 1.1l water to grow a single almond, causing ravaging drought in California - which produces over 85% of the WORLD's almonds. Millions of bees die when they are shipped in each year for pollination - in areas where insecticides are used heavily (up to 25% of the millions of bees used - not very nice to bees!) And the waste pulp from the almonds with very very little nutritional value is simply dumped.

But then again Almond milk is only around 2% almond - mostly water and a bit of "gum" to make it pour like milk.

Unsweetened: Water, ALMOND (2.1%), Tri-calcium phosphate, Sea salt, Locust bean gum, Gellan gum, Sunflower lecithin, Riboflavin (B2), B12, E, D2, Natural flavouring

Gottalove a lot of what you've written is untrue. Bearing in mind a cow needs to produce a calf and that she generally can't do that until she's three.
AI is done with horses too. Do you have issue with that? I've also seen it done with dogs for pedigree pups where the bitch is a bit 'volatile' (silly when temprement is so important). A lot of dairy farmers use sexed sperm to cut down the number of male calves. It's not fail-safe though. Beef is most often crossbred with dairy breeds to provide a dual perpose animal. This means veal not always necessary- the male calf can be raised in the field until approx 18 months of age. This is because veal is unpopular in the U.K. Beef cattle are usually naturally fertilised but dairy bulls can be more difficult to handle hence using AI.

Regardless shadowboy a calf is still taken from its mother. And dairy cows end up in the same slaughterhouses in the end.

OP is asking for milk reconditions because of cruelty in dairy production. There is cruelty in dairy production, whether it's an acceptable level of cruelty to you isn't what's being discussed - it's cruel enough to OP to avoid.

The points about cruelty and environmental issues surrounding other milks are valid and worth discussing here. It's made me decide to give oat milk another go.

Why oh why do people always quote facts and figures from the U.S, which have no relevance to U.K dairy farms. I don't have time to argue right now, but some very skewed 'facts' on this thread.

Sorry shadowlove I'm sure I read that a cow can start being made pregnant at 13 months old, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't like the thought of mothers crying for their babies for days on end and vice versa. It just seems so unnatural for an animal to be made to lactate for so long just so we can drink the milk which a don't even need.

we don't need

They are generally at least 15 months old, which I know seems young, but these will be the more intensively farmed ones as a rule. Yes some mums might call for their babies, but in the more intensive farms a lot of the cows have been so intensively bred that they are not very interested in their babies, and will not lick / feed them, and will not cry for them. A baby won't mind as long as it has a warm bed and a full tummy.
Not my idea if what's right, but the truth - and what you get if consumers want cheap products, and farmers want to maximise their profits. Greed makes the animals suffer. It is unfair to tarnish all farmers like this though.