to ask how you feel when someone is at the opposite end of the faith spectrum?

[Morphene]

I've recently discovered two separate people I have been getting closer to (professional/friendship wise) are at the other end of the faith scale from me. I have actually felt a little upset and unbalanced by it.

IABU? I mean I know I am, but do other people get this? Does it make a difference if you are the one with or without faith?

I am sure I will still get on just fine with them, but I feel a little sadness that in this important respect we are very far from each others wavelength.

cvbn

I agree,

Do you think its only certain religions that have that

Sorry if i am offending anyone its just i know that catholics and jews tell a lot of self deprecating jokes and ive never heard any from the baptist side of the family

loup i dont remember the bear one but it does ring a bell. My mums favourite was the wall in heaven

Rufus I like the wall in heaven. The bear one is where a family of hikers stumble across a family of bears and start praying that the bears believe in God (thinking they'll be saved) so the bears kneel down and ask God to bless their meal. Our bishop used to say it was a good example of being careful what you ask for.

Not in my nature Loup, not when under attack.

Oh yes i do remember it

Knew i had heard it

Talking about tolerance, there are far more religions massively less tolerant than Christianity.

CVBN, of course people have the right to be rude.

Never bothers me unless other people are trying to shove their beliefs down other people's throats or unless their beliefs perpetuate some sort of prejudice/hate/inequality.

This. Also people being assholes or not bears no correlation to their faith. I know as many Christian assholes as I do atheist ones.

I want you to say: I respect others who hold different views, even where I do not agree with them, particularly if I've not actually bothered to try to learn about the source of those views.

Right, you attacked me for allegedly trying to force others to think like me, then did the very same in your post above.
You simply have to stop assuming and generalising. You have no idea about my character, my professional vocation, my education or my religious background. I could be a theologian, or a physics professor. You have to stop assuming I haven't done any research.

I do not have to respect religious views, I know you don't like it, but its a fact, you need to live with that because you cant change it.

I live in Alaska and its a popular one here - most bear jokes are, but it still makes me snigger ever time

April as a religious person I haven't felt under attack at all on this thread. Re your other comment about kids affected by street preachers, that one came to mind as I was reading a thread on here the other day where someone said that they had bad anxiety about the world ending and going to hell as a child due to an over zealous street preacher.

Going to bow out now of this thread now, always a pleasure to debate alongside people who know how.

hackmum - I didn't say my comment to Ollie wasn't offensive - it was intended to be. I'm sure s/he can take it as well as dish it out.

But it was not intolerant.

You can go through every single post I've posted on this thread and I challenge you to find a single post where I ever stated that my beliefs were inherently 'better' than those of an atheist, or of a member of a different religion. You won't find one, because I don't think like that.

What I have stressed all the way through this thread, as have the other religious people, is that all we want is to be left alone quietly to mind our own business as to what we do and don't believe. We have no desire to convert you, or tell your your atheism is 'delusional'.

I am sick of atheists with whole trees in their eyes telling me to mind the beam in mine. Though it is quite sweet to say how speedily they reach for a religious metaphor, given their attitude to religion in general.

If you are religious, could you explain why you think some people are atheists? Do you believe Gof has failed to reveal himself to us - or that we haven't done enough thinking/research/reading of the bible. Do you think we might have different brains ro you meaning we can't 'tune in' and receive God? Genuine question

Depends how much the other person talkes on about it.
My close friend is atheist, I'm a Christian who is in church most Sundays.
We just agree to disagree. I don't talk much about my faith but she knows it's there. She has in the past asked me questions. I know it fascinates her because she can't understand why I believe.
She would never ridicule it, I would never ridicule her either. It's not an issue at all.
She's also a staunch republican and I'm a big fan of the royal family. Life would be dull if we were all the same.

'AIBU to ask how you feel....' - people said how they feel!
It doesn't mean they go round being overtly disrespectful. But 'there is a cultural delusion where the irrational has led the way for millennia' is something that people feel, and not without reason. If that's upsetting, I can see why - but rather than attack the messengers, why not take it as a jumping-off point for further thought?

hackmum - I didn't say my comment to Ollie wasn't offensive - it was intended to be. I'm sure s/he can take it as well as dish it out.

I didn't 'dish it out' though. I challenged claims, I never made assumptions on character or name called.

We have no desire to convert you, or tell your your atheism is 'delusional'.

And on that familiar note, I'm definitely out. You just generalised YET AGAIN that "is that all we want is to be left alone quietly to mind our own business as to what we do and don't believe." How on earth can you speak for all religious people, when you know full well that there are some branches of religion that absolutely do want to convert people, to be vocal, to cause harm...

I'm out.

loup of all the things in the world that a child can feel anxious about id say a street preacher is probably the bottom of the list for causing it.... and why would you feel under attack, that happens when someone is having a go at you personally as you did me.

Ollie - glad you're taking Bertrand's advice and running away, given your tendency to lie about things that were only posted on that or the previous page. I have no idea how you think that's not going to be bleeding obvious...

eg You said: " I do not have to respect religious views, I know you don't like it but its a fact, you need to live with that because you cant change it."

When what I said was: " I'm not trying to force you to respect religion. Why would I do that? Religion is just a belief system. It doesn't have feelings. I'm trying to point out out to you that you should respect people with different beliefs to you. You don't have to agree with them, not remotely. But you have no right to call other people delusional, stupid etc just because you disagree. Because that is rude."

And so there we are, you can now run away, having still failed entirely to understand the difference between attacking a religion and attacking billions of actual people, just because you think you have a right to tell them what to believe.

Satishouse obviously I can't answer for everyone but I think some people were atheists because they aren't believers, simple as that. I just accept it as fact, I don't think about it anymore than that as I think its a personal choice and not for me to comment or dwell on. I'm happy and content with my beliefs, I assume others are too.

April if you felt I attacked you then I am genuinely sorry. I did apologise for singling out your comment and using it to illustrate a point, but it stood out to me as disrespectful and goady. I think you are missing the point about street preachers, but perhaps I am not being very clear.

If you are religious, could you explain why you think some people are atheists? Do you believe Gof has failed to reveal himself to us - or that we haven't done enough thinking/research/reading of the bible. Do you think we might have different brains ro you meaning we can't 'tune in' and receive God? Genuine question

Satis, no, I cannot explain why. I don't know why, I don't know whether they'll keep on being atheists either. I can think of possible explanations but I am not a mind reader. The person in question might be able to tell you their reasons for belief and tbh they might not really know themselves. I don't really question why they are atheist, it is not something I can really, definitively, find out the answer to.

^ or lack of belief, that should say! Ironically!

"I think some people were atheists because they aren't believers, simple as that"

That's about it for me (not that anyone asked me but I liked that description).

There's no part of me that entertains the notion. And life is eminently liveable and full of wonder, so nothing to search for there.

DH would say all that plus he really can't be doing with bells

That's ok loup my post probably did come across that way, but do you not find it "goady" or at least "insulting", (as you are a religious person) with the posts that say they think lesser of a person or are "disappointed" upon finding out they believe in God. I would have thought that those sort of posts were more worthy of a reprimand.They are surely being "goady" and "disrespectful" and worthy of reproach?

April yes I do, absolutely. I'm a scientist, if people find out I'm also religious it seems to be like the bat signal for twattist comments and yep it annoys me and sometimes hurts me.
When I first used your comment about God pursuing atheists I meant that I am sure that comes across as just as annoying, smug and superior to atheists as the endless where's the proof God exists/you're a delusionist/I am obviously more intelligent stuff that some atheists come out with to religious people. Again, I truly am sorry, I shouldn't have singled out your comments

I know how you feel OP.

I was brought up CofE, went through an evangelical stage in my teens (and was a bit of an arse about it), spent a few years as an agnostic, then got into paganism, which I found very enriching but ultimately nice fairy stories. I'm now an atheist but still enjoy a bit of paganism or the occasional church service in a cultural way.

Religion IMO has been a tremendous force for both good and bad in the world. I know people who have been very badly harmed by their experiences with religious organisations of several faiths and denominations. I also know lots of people of faith(s) who do a huge amount for others. I'll never forget the kindness and support our family received from the CofE my mum attends when my dad died, and they continue to support her now she is elderly and less mobile in all sorts of small, everyday ways. Also a lot of the food banks are run by churches and when I have clients who have literally nowhere to sleep that night and the council won't help, it's churches who give them shelter.

I've got friends and colleagues of all faiths and none and the subject rarely comes up. I think for deep friendships though, religion can create barriers, just as politics can.

I'm not a scientist but I do like to discuss things from a basis of rationality and, if a friend believes in god (or anything else for which there is no evidence) it means there are certain no-go areas for conversations, partly because I don't want to offend them - it's a contentious topic, as evidenced by this thread, but more importantly because we are approaching a topic from completely different starting points. Faith, by its nature, has nothing to do with evidence. If there was evidence for god, nobody would need faith, or to believe. So, while I have nothing against people of faith (and have been one myself in the past), certain converstations inevitably become frustrating.

There's a great book by Daniel Dennett - Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon which looks at the role religion has played in human evolution. It does appear that religion has in the past been a pretty much universal phenomenon and has had an enormous role in the development of human cultures.

I'm a couple of pages behind but I noticed some discussion about whether everybody's views should be respected. I don't think they should. Some people's views are abhorrent, others just don't stand up to scrutiny. Maybe someone has linked to this already but there's a great article here: No, you’re not entitled to your opinion. The author argues that you are not entitled to your opinion, you are only entitled to what you can argue for (and he argues it well ).