to ask how you feel when someone is at the opposite end of the faith spectrum?

[Morphene]

I've recently discovered two separate people I have been getting closer to (professional/friendship wise) are at the other end of the faith scale from me. I have actually felt a little upset and unbalanced by it.

IABU? I mean I know I am, but do other people get this? Does it make a difference if you are the one with or without faith?

I am sure I will still get on just fine with them, but I feel a little sadness that in this important respect we are very far from each others wavelength.

atenco I don't think science and religion are on the same spectrum, I think they run orthogonal to one another.

They certainly aren't opposites.

As a proverbial "tin-foil hat wearer" I often find myself having to sensor my words and spoken thoughts, amongst the majority of other people whom I converse with. I think this is akin to the question in the OP. Although this doesn't stop me from having friends and other meaningful relationships, it is just means that certain subjects will not be on the agenda in the future, and that is how it stands. Everyone has a right to believe what they want in a supposedly free, and free-thinking society, as long as their ideology and actions harm no one. We all have to accept each other and hopefully live in peace.

"It's about expressly saying you believe in living one way and then not doing it. The issue is hypocrisy."

No it's not hypocrisy, because everyone struggles to act as well as they believe they should sometimes.

Hypocrisy is saying you have values that you don't

Not always living up to your own values is just human nature.

I think this is a very dangerous point and a very important distinction. Because the realistic impossibility of being perfect is often touted about as a reason to give up. "don't be a hypocrite! Be a shit! Evolution says you are supposed to be a greedy lazy selfish arse, so just go with it!"

Not being able to be perfect is not a good reason not to try.

(this is not a specifically religious point, as it is not only religious people who have ethics)

I hate this assumption that people of faith have higher ethical standards and a more accurate moral compass than people without faith............

Bertrand, the thing is some people make assumptions based on faith or the lack of it (as the Op details facing experiencing her own assumptions about people of faith).

If assumptions are made concerning a group you, personally, belong to and they behave badly there can be a totally natural emotional feeling that they have somehow 'let the side down' or at least disappointment in the realisation that this means the whole group will be viewed badly, by some.

Like you, as admitted in your previous post hate derogatory assumptions concerning atheists, Bertrand
Here:

I hate this assumption that people of faith have higher ethical standards and a more accurate moral compass than people without faith............

Because your group acting badly can fuel the fire of derogatory assumptions.

I hate this assumption that people of faith have higher ethical standards and a more accurate moral compass than people without faith

I agree, it's obnoxious. I think it's only a minority but it's so untrue.

So I'm not sure feeling disappointed in your own group's bad behaviour can be conflated with expecting them to behave better than another group. It might just be that bad behaviour within a small sector of your own group can reflect badly on your group, as a whole - it fuels the fire of any prejudice against that group.

morphene- toffee I totally get what you are saying. Not that atheist are less moral than christians, but that when a christian is amoral they are both being amoral and hypocritical, while an amoral atheist is just being amoral.

So an atheist has no moral compass and is incapable of hypocricy?

I would suggest that it's disturbing to know that some christians are incapable of working out morality on their own basis, and need to be told like a herd of sheep .

I mean really "Thou shalt not kill" Duh.

You need a holy directive to tell you that?

And according to god it's case of do as I say, not as I do, given his psychopathic, narcissist homocidal leanings.

I would suggest that it's disturbing to know that some christians are incapable of working out morality on their own basis, and need to be told like a herd of sheep

Only disturbing if you assume human beings are naturally completely capable of 'working out morality', all the time, in every situation, skerry. What about those of us who are fallible? Are we somehow unnatural, aberrations? Are people who admit their own fallibility and seek help to address it, worse than those who assume they are capable of working out the morality in every situation?

But to behave morally to please god?

That's no morality at all.

I behave morally to do what I think is right, skerry but due to my faith, I believe this is synonymous with pleasing God. Everyone's a winner, even if doing the right thing might be difficult sometimes.

pleasing god Why should that have an influence at all?

skerry, Christianity is not illegal in this country. I can be influenced by Christian beliefs and God if I choose to. We all have to decide, what we personally believe we 'should' think and do. It is the basis of examining our own behaviour. Or would you not allow Christian believers that degree of automony?

Christian believers are free to abdicate that autonomy of thought- of course.

As is anyone skerry, of any faith and none.

Personally, I do think about what is right, a lot. Reflection and contemplation are long traditions amongst Christian communities - which does not really hold up with 'abdicating autonomy of thought', as you suggest we might do.

That's debatable.

Some awful things have been done in the name of christianity.

The bible condones slavery, execution, torture and human sacrifice.

Not a beacon that I am drawn to surprisingly.

Awful things have been done 'in the name' of other gods and political and ideological movements too, skerry. It doesn't necessarily mean what is done bears any relation to the actuality of what God, god(s) or particular political and ideological movements are about.

Also, unsurprisingly, I am not likely to take any Bible interpretation lessons from someone who so vehemently appears to relish in arguing "The bible condones slavery, execution, torture and human sacrifice".

Be glad that is not what the majority of Christians in this country understand from their faith.

Be glad that is not what the majority of Christians in this country understand from their faith.

I should be glad that most christians choose to cherry pick the bible- too right.
Otherwise we would still have slavery.

And you don't 'cherry pick' the Bible yourself, yourself' skerry, in order to derive at the most brutal and vicious interpretation possible, which supports your anti-theism?

It's not me using the bible to support my moral stance.

OP to sort of answer your question if I know a person is religious I am polite and friendly with anything to do with work or social situations like school functions etc. I avoid getting to know them personally. However if a person is religious but never mentions it that is a different thing and I can be friends. So it would depend on the religious persons approach. I firmly believe that you can believe you can worship Voldemort if it floats your boat but I don't need to know.

No, skerry, you are attempting to use it to support your anti-theism.

You have not overtly said how you reflect upon and decide your own moral stance, apart from implying you are able to work it out independently on your 'own basis', here:

I would suggest that it's disturbing to know that some christians are incapable of working out morality on their own basis, and need to be told like a herd of sheep .

I'm religious, liberal and tolerant.
It makes no difference to me what faith someone is or if they have no faith.

What I can't stand is when religious people feel the need to correct my theology and I also can't stand Atheists who feel the need to point out why my faith is awful, quote isolated pieces of scripture to "prove" how bad religion is etc. Those people don't believe God doesn't exist, rather they feel superior and want to correct the world and be rude.

If somebody is a tolerant person, we can be friends. If somebody is a self-righteous argumentative person then we can't be friends. Faith doesn't come into it.