to ask how you feel when someone is at the opposite end of the faith spectrum?

[Morphene]

I've recently discovered two separate people I have been getting closer to (professional/friendship wise) are at the other end of the faith scale from me. I have actually felt a little upset and unbalanced by it.

IABU? I mean I know I am, but do other people get this? Does it make a difference if you are the one with or without faith?

I am sure I will still get on just fine with them, but I feel a little sadness that in this important respect we are very far from each others wavelength.

It is isnt it cvbn

I should imagine that it isn't actually a bat though

Maybe angel..or flaming sword

Deffo flaming sword

It's part of a belief system, yes, cvbn. I concede that it's a less popular one that any of the major world religions.

But you have no right to call other people delusional, stupid etc just because you disagree. Because that is rude. You can disagree with their views politely and tolerantly. Or better still, just not discuss it, as you're unlikely to agree

Yes I do have the right to call other people delusional or stupid, it doesn't matter if its rude. But if you look back, I haven't called you anything. It was rude of you to call me all the things you have, but you had the right to.

Do you speak to everyone like a child?

You can disagree with their views politely and tolerantly. Or better still, just not discuss it, as you're unlikely to agree

So someone puts something on a public discussion forum I don't agree with and you think I should just leave it because I might offend them? We are grown ups.

Unfortunately Bertrand, though we agree on most everything else, we have opposing views on the existence of God.

Why when I say that I cannot "believe in" a particular scientific theory, do you automatically assume that I am a creationist? I just cannot believe in a scientific theory that may one day be proven wrong as so many have in the past.

I just cannot believe in a scientific theory that may one day be proven wrong as so many have in the past.

Which one?

ollieplimsoles -

Do you speak to everyone like a child?

Only when they argue like one.

Come on, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Surely you can do better than that.

No worries Rufus

The branch of Christianity I follow (Russian Orthodox) doesn't follow Rome, but as a bishop friend of mine says its great to be comfortable enough in your belief that you are able to laugh at your religion, and his holiness with a bat phone is a funny image.

Oh my goodness. ollieplimsoles - please go and urgently do some reading on the history of science!

I recommend starting with The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Kuhn, on paradigm shifts.

Then come back and apologise.

Come on, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Surely you can do better than that.

Better than what? Ive answered all your posts aimed at me, you have ignored everything I have put to you and frankly I'm bored, you just keep making accusation after accusation, what do you want me to say?

Apologise for asking a question of another poster?

loup

My mum was a catholic of great faith and she did love a good catholic joke

They used to do them in the church newsletter

See, cvbn
You have accused me if being intolerant, rude, aggressive, arrogant.. You seriously need to read your posts back aimed at me and step down off your high horse.

ollieplimsoles -

I want you to say: I respect others who hold different views, even where I do not agree with them, particularly if I've not actually bothered to try to learn about the source of those views.

I'd like you to be a bit more self-critical and content with your own views, without feeling the need to impose those views on others. You really should do a bit of reading on the history of science if you imagine that scientific understanding was just formed in a straight path to the uplands of Truth we stand on today. A little humility derived from an understanding that scientists in every age thought they knew the Truth would be good. But that we don't still think the world is flat or eugenics is a thing or alchemy works etc.

"On that subject, are you going to reply to my previous post to you? Not all religious people are either Christian or forcing you to accept their faith? So what was the meaning of your previous post?"

I know. Which is why, in the post you unaccountably objected to, I said "if you live in the U.K., and are a Christian" or words to that effect.

Clarity, I would say that they all start out with the same faith as their parents would be a bit of a giveaway. It would be quite exciting if a baby born into a Christian family showed itself to be a Muslim as soon as it could talk.............

Bertrand, if we are talking about feelings and compunctions, of faith, pre-verbalisation, it could be years before the individual can fully express them verbally. I still have feelings I cannot fully express into words.

The great thing about these threads is that they quite quickly reach a point when the adherents of a religion that preaches peace, tolerance and kindness start being massively aggressive and insulting towards people who disagree with them.

And then they wonder why we're not a fan of religion.

Rufus - lots of religious people enjoy a good religious joke. Think of the many Irish comedians who do brilliant Catholic jokes, or Jewish comedians Jewish ones.

Religious people tend to have a well-developed sense of humour, as religion is indeed quite funny!

Rufus I became religious as an adult and I thinks its very healthy to be able to share a joke, obviously not offensive ones but some are very funny. The one about the bear family who come across a family of hikers is one of my favourites. I don't live in Russia anymore but my Bishop friend used to include a joke at the end of every mass - they can be a great way of illustrating a point.

Sorry to use you as an exmaple but your "perhaps God is pursuing you, just a thought" comment (sorry to paraphrase) came across as goady, petty, patronising, superior and disrespectful. Its comments like that which really get people's backs up, I'm religious and my first thought reading it was odfod.
Yes you're probably right, in real life i wouldn't talk like that, but tbf if you can't take it, don't give it out. There are some awfully goady posts on here towards people who have a strong belief in God, therefore i have the right to fire right back with something equally antagonistic.

I equally think odfod but wouldn't be so childish as to say it.
Regarding street preachers, you make it sound like there's one on every corner, i've never heard of a child yet to have been upset by one either.

hackmum - who has done that?

The only people who have been intolerant on this thread are the atheists. For reasons I don't understand, they have a problem with people not believing exactly the same as them.

cvbn

Are we allowed to say:

I respect people for being kind, bright, hard-working and as ethically-minded as they can be. I respect them for not accepting intolerance and prejudice, and for actively working to help others. But on the subject of them believing in supernatural forces of creation, I am on the fence :)

A genuine question. Because I think if you want people to say that your religious belief and millennia of ongoing scientific endeavour are equal, you're onto a loser.

There are some awfully goady posts on here towards people who have a strong belief in God, therefore i have the right to fire right back with something equally antagonistic.

What happened to turning the other cheek?

hackmum no really, it's the other way round, i've never understood why it angers atheists so much. Google it, it's a well known concept, atheists who get angered by people who believe in God.

I don't think atheist do get angered by people having a faith in god
They do get irritated by individuals though
Especially those who don't see that one annoying spod getting a cutting remark thrown at them isn't the same as all atheists hating all believers automatically and without provocation

cvbnL "hackmum - who has done that?

The only people who have been intolerant on this thread are the atheists."

Oh dear. So comments such as "You make all atheists look like madly intolerant nutjobs" aren't massively insulting or offensive in your view, then?

As I said earlier, you should really cast the beam out of your own eye first. If you imagine you're doing a good job of demonstrating tolerance and understanding, then I strongly suggest you go away and engage in a little reflection and self-analysis.