AIBU to ask what is bad behaviour in children?

[Floods123]

I am male, and first post. Pleas be gentle! I am with a wonderful lady who has three grandchildren. They stay with us and I try to have fun with them and frankly work hard to do the right thing.

However tension us caused when in my eyes they misbehave. For example: 6 year old has a crying fit when told to wear wellies instead of shoes to the park. Partner engaging in discussion and a compromise is reached. (Boring won't go into it!) Lots cuddles and never mind stuff.

In my eyes this is very naughty. Adult tells you what to do. You do it. Not up for debate. Crying fit and discussion is wrong and should be punished not talked about and compromised upon. Otherwise this happens whenever child does not get one way.

These episodes spoil the visits and cause problems. Really trying but can't cope with this behaviour.

That is not 'bad'. It is an emotional reaction to something that means a lot to a child, but to adults it doesn't so we don't understand it. They don't have a fully developed brain yet and can't completely rationalise things, process situations, regulate emotions or wait for things like we can. Now that we understand more about how children's brains work, and the unfairness punishment is for and the negative effect it has on them and our relationships with them ( and the fact that it doesn't have the desired effect), most people don't behave like their own parents did.

Trifleorbust, great point. That is why it is so important parents are generally decent and respectful when they communicate with their children so that they understand when a situation is serious and listen.

I think a lot of the responses here are as if the child in question is 3 years old. She is 6. I don't know a single 6 year old who would still cry to get what they want. 3 yes. 6 unacceptable.

thethoughtfox.

Of course. It is a delicate balance. If you constantly put your foot down over trivia, your child will never learn to trust your judgement and (not being stupid) will think you have a tendency to fuss and that you are unnecessarily strict. If you never put your foot down about trivial things, the child will be slow to understand that your judgement supersedes their own until they have reached near adulthood.

Agree with the majority, this is just what children do and they do it for good reason, IMO not to be 'naughty'. I wouldn't see this as naughty behaviour. When children are learning independence they do get frustrated. Also these are big things to kids, their choices and possessions and they are not able to manage their emotions in a grown up way when they are 6: their brains just do not work like that. They cry. About 'silly' things that are important to them. It's ok for kids to cry and it's ok for kids to need an explanation about why an adult is asking them to do something they didn't want to do. They are learning how to process their own emotions. This will take years so you do need to realise this. Perhaps a book on child development would help you? A passive child who did absolutely everything they were told would scare the life out of me, I would be terrified of that.

I have a non verbal child so I always try to think of the reason for my child's behaviour and wouldn't dismiss any behaviour as just being naughty.
My child does not have the understanding to understand why some things have to or cannot be done but a firm voice in those situations works ( for him) because it is not used all the time.

My view is that certain things are non-negotiable (and I have taught my toddler that term already). Generally health and safety stuff - tooth brushing, car seat, holding my hand near traffic, etc. Other stuff I will entertain some debate about or let her choose.

I actually agree with OP on some things and disagree with nearly all the other posters.
Yes it's sound and the done thing now to offer children choices: plate or shoes. But sometimes we go to far. This child centric way of parenting has swung right over to the other side, and I think it's swung too far to the other side. It is ok for sometimes the parent to choose the coloured plate, just because. Sometimes you need children to do as they are asked, just because.

It also helps lot of you can pre-empt some of the situations - i know my dd will want a pink cup so I make her drink in one in the first place. It's not inconvenient, on the same shelf as the others so she gets her own way but hasn't 'won' over me because we avoided the clash in the first place. Wellies - i would allow the choice and take the wellies in a bag for when she wants to jump in puddles later. Dd is very opinionated and would often insist innit wearing socks, coat etc. I need to get to work so explained she would be cold, let her up without and produce them from a bag later with a 'now do you understand why mummy wanted you to wear them'?. It's not always possible but i try to look ahead so after two weeks school holidays I am preparing my two today for the back to routine tomorrow - the need for uniform, timekeeping etc I HAVE to get themout the door on time in the right kit, no compromise there but i will lay the groundwork tonight..I know my parents sometimes struggle with understanding modern methods and there are times when I have literally just physically picked up one of mine and carried them to wherever, ignoring the complaints but when the choice is possible, I give it. They are great and v well behaved at school - no.issues doing as they are told at all. I DO punish rudeness, attitude and stamping feet type behaviour.

Trifleorbust then explain that to the child as well. Not just blatantly because 'I'm an adult'. 6yo do not cry for no reason and it does not mean they're naughty. It means there has been a breakdown of communication from both parts that does not help with a 'because I say so'

In the example of wellies I would look at whether wellies were needed (I'm not replacing ruined shoes) and if they were just say 'well if you want to go to the park today it's muddy so you'll have to wear wellies'. And not go if they refused. If there were other children being prevented from going to the park by refusal to wear wellies I would either compromise ('you can walk to the park in your shoes, but once there you will have to wear wellies if you want to play') or be a bit more hardline ('well everyone else wants to go to the park so you'll have to wear them'). I think boundaries and directions are fine as long as they make sense. Sometime my kids have not wanted to wear wellies because they're uncomfortable in which case I dig around for an alternative to offer (bigger brothers outgrown walking boots for example).

As they get older more negotiation seems to work better and they begin to understand when they are being unreasonable.

I don't agree with the 'because an adult said so' approach though.

Janeofalltrades1:

That's the whole point - sometimes you don't have time to explain everything and you need immediate co-operation.

I agree with your style eurochick. That way, the child learns to make their own decision on things and not feel helpless/like a puppet all the time.

"Adult tells you what to do. You do it. Not up for debate. "

pp Jane disagreed. But in some respects I do agree.

Sometimes we pander too much to children and primary children think their needs need to be taken into account all the time. But that's not so. When they get to secondary there is still a large element of 'doing what they are told'.
Then when they get to work, many aspects you don't want to do, but you just have to get on with it.
So, their needs or wants will not be as important, they won't be able to compromise or discuss or have a say on all issues.

We are in danger of making a generation of children who are too 'entitled' and can't tell the time or place to just 'do as they are told'.

Trifleorbust I was speaking with the wellies scenario in mind on other nonnegotiable like security and hygiene, I would say to explain in advance. Besides, to make them understand and therefore for them to be willing to participate, understanding the reason plays an important part. Reaching a mutual understanding still goes against "do what I say, I'm an adult". If adults want that, get a puppet instead of raising a child.

I teach and also have an 11 and 6 year old. I've genuinely never come across a child who was "naughty" for the sake of it. There's always a reason or a communication. DH thinks it's pretentious bullshit to say that, but I genuinely believe it to be true.

Our DCs can have difficult days, they've had tantrums in the past, they struggle to regulate themselves all the time. I find talking them through it and helping them see how to make better choices, how to regulate themselves next time, how to communicate what they want works so much better at reducing unwanted behaviour. I find it works in school too; children who feel you're listening to them are far less likely to get into that upset state in the first place.

DS2 was the king of tantrums at one point; he once shouted and ranted because he couldn't' taste the colour yellow. Even that level of madness has a root cause. You find that, you reduce the chances of the behaviour being repeated.

Hi OP I got to page 3 and got a little bored. Life is too short to make this a problem for you.
Firstly, it is not a grandparent's job to provide discipline.

Secondly, where I differ with most other posters is this is a school aged child who has to do what she is told. Maybe teachers of 6 year olds negotiate, though I doubt it. But I reckon you post similar on the education pages and everyone would say it's up to the adults in the child's life to make them aware of what is expected of them.

As far as I'm concerned a tantrum from a six year old should not continue to be negotiated with. Of course There are ways round things for example seats are swapped each time a child gets in the car so each child gets to sit behind the driver on different legs of the ride.

As they get older different things work. At the moment I'm using bribery for my elder child so that he reads more. Raising children is trial and error, but my kids know if a tantrum happens they are not getting what they want. Full stop.

Oh and I have wonderful conversations with my kids and get their opinions on everything. They have a voice, but just like a corporate environment, there is a time and place. They are as profound as they are precious. They make stupid mistakes as they get older (more stupid than at 6 trust me), there are various battles. But really these are not for you to worry about. Going back to my first point, it's the parent's responsibility to discipline their kids.

Hope that helps a little.

Also, with the non-negotiables I simply state "because it keeps you safe and loving someone means keeping them safe". Even with the children in school saying to them "I care about you enough to keep you safe/tell you no/show you how to do it differently next time" helps them to understand that whilst you might not like the behaviour, you're still on their side and they react far more positively. You don't need to be a dragon, you simply need to show them that you love them enough to give boundaries.

WhooooAmI24601
I agree. And I don't punish either. Some people have told me I am lucky that I have such easy well behaved kids.

At school, as they get older, I tell them to 'play the game' (i.e. Just do what they're told), but will talk about whether I think a particular teacher has been unfair. Ds2 has had a tricky time with two teachers this year and I think he needed to hear my views on them (one turned out to be one of be most unpleasant people I have ever met, the other is a nice chap who is not a good teacher). In both cases we talked about what he needed to do to get on their right side. His marks with Mr Vile Sadist have increased dramatically after our discussion - and in part I think that's because ds2 knows I understand how unpleasant the man is and has understood my point that the teacher has all the power and ds2 needs good GCSE's more than the teacher needs him to get a good mark.

I think it's easier to have those conversations if your child knows you are fair. I do point out when I think a teacher has been reasonable as well and ds2 should just suck it up!

You know what? I have a favourite cup and there are some bowls I don't like. I've also got shoes I'd rather not wear sometimes even if they're most suitable.

Obviously I'm an adult so can be reasonable but children need to learn this and your partner is doing a good job.

You need to rethink your attitude. To be honest, if I was the child's parent and got wind of your attitude I'd be reluctant to let them stay.

Generation snowflake. Sigh

Consider your own role in this. You sound like a fairly recent addition to the household and evidently you do not like or approve of this child. Grandma's house has therefore gone from a haven to a very uncertain place where she feels uncomfortable and judged. Children are like razors when it comes to determining who loves them and who doesn't- there are good evolutionary reasons for this.

Therefore she feels unsettled, and when this happens, children regress. It is normal. Do not expect more from this child than her neurological development will give you. It's pointless, ineffective and damaging.

The other thing children do when things seem to be in flux is test boundaries. That is also what the tantrum is about. Seeing what happens and if she is safe and secure.

Things you can do:

• allow Grandma to do the discipline and keep an unbothered smile on your face (no passive aggression, tutting, etc)
• If she's going to bed later than she does at home, suggest to your partner that she have an early nightb(don't force this yourself though, it will feel like punishment from you)
• Ensure she's not hungry. Hungry children are on a very short fuse.
• Remember that Grandma's job is not the same as a parent. They are supposed to be indulgent. Wasn't your own grandmother? Most people remember sweeties etc from grandparents and a bit more flexibility.
• Wonder at your own reaction. Why do you find this presence so irritating? Are you jealous, to a degree, of her earlier life?

YABU.

Best to wave good bye at your 'friend'

"Adult tells you what to do. You do it. Not up for debate. Crying fit and discussion is wrong and should be punished not talked about and compromised upon. "

You are obviously old school but things have moved on and these children's grandmother is doing a brilliant job to her in case it's a reverse. OP you are very much out of touch with how to raise children.

WhooooAmI I totally agree with you. You sound like a very reasonable parent that I would love to learn from.