AIBU to ask what is bad behaviour in children?

[Floods123]

I am male, and first post. Pleas be gentle! I am with a wonderful lady who has three grandchildren. They stay with us and I try to have fun with them and frankly work hard to do the right thing.

However tension us caused when in my eyes they misbehave. For example: 6 year old has a crying fit when told to wear wellies instead of shoes to the park. Partner engaging in discussion and a compromise is reached. (Boring won't go into it!) Lots cuddles and never mind stuff.

In my eyes this is very naughty. Adult tells you what to do. You do it. Not up for debate. Crying fit and discussion is wrong and should be punished not talked about and compromised upon. Otherwise this happens whenever child does not get one way.

These episodes spoil the visits and cause problems. Really trying but can't cope with this behaviour.

Oh God OP, you couldn't have asked that question in a worse place...

Actually I think that the major issues are often the ones where there is less space to compromise. For example road safety, wearing a seat belt etc. These are where we sometimes have to dictate.

Most other things, when they are wee. Pick your battles. If they have wet feet, or whatever they'll probably remember that.

And yes that is frustrating and what I would consider bad behaviour. I'm a mother of 5 and I'm fsitly strict by modern day standards with my dc.

I was a lot more lenient with that kind of behaviour with my first but have become progressively more confident in what works/doesn't work parenting style wise.

That's not to say I don't listen to my dc and I certainly give them an abundance of love and laughter.

Crying isn't naughty; shouting, screaming, violence would be. But crying and being upset isn't and isn't worth punishing.

It is worth understanding and compassion and an equal conversation, sets them up much better for later life to do the same themselves and to have self worth from an early age.

Is this the first time you have been around young children since you were one? If you can't handle their behaviour then ask your dp if you can back off when it happens (but make it clear it's your issue not them), but maybe you could also ask for some techniques to handle it.

Kids are annoying even when they are your own, so I have some sympathy, but they are small people who can't always control their emotions, and they deserve understanding and kindness.

One thing which stuck with me is that when someone is behaving in a way making them impossible to love, is the time they need it the most. I try and remember that when my kids drive me batty.

I could not disagree with you more. Why does the adult get to decide those things?
Umm because it is muddy and she doesn't want to have to clean up muddy trainers , or have mud trailed around the house.
The 6 yo sounds like a spoiled little madam and she should do as her GM says without this carry on at 6 years old!
You will find MNers don't believe children should be taught to do as they are told, they are only setting them up to be a PITA at school, who WILL expect obedience over something like this

To be fair to the OP though...I'm a parent and my MIL does this with my nephew and it irritates the heck out of me. She's constantly making everyone else wait whilst she discusses and compromises with a 3 year old!

He's 3! Get him out of the bloody car...stop discussing it with him!

Op, sorry if you're not an idiot, but you really come across as an idiot here. They're not even your family! Go have a cup of tea while your partner takes care of the kids properly. You have no idea what you're doing.

Try this: www.google.com. You type in "authoritarian parenting" and in 0.00064682 seconds you will have 1 billion explanations as to why your parenting style is horrible and raises awful children.

Your partner knows what she's doing. Have some respect and let her carry on. If you push and the parents get wind of it do you think they will leave their kids with your partner anymore? And if she loses time with her grandkids because of you do you think she'll want you around?

Just back off and leave the poor kids alone.

You sound like my Dad, been a while since we saw him actually because of this kind of outdated and opinionated claptrap about "naughtiness".

"Spoiled little madam" oh how I despise that saying. Out of interest, how would you refer to the child if it was a boy?

Preferring shoes over boots, a specific plate, car seat, etc, isn't 'naughty'.

Naughty is - throwing food or toys, shouting at someone, kicking, biting, saying mean things.

The examples you've given are just preferences.

Just like you have preferences. Young children have very little control over anything in their own lives. Adults dictate everything.

Expressing a preferences for something small is all they have. And what's more they're allowed to have those preferences.

We might know better than them in many instances - if it's wet then wellies are probably a better idea, for instance. So then you explain that, and if necessary insist on it.

Sometimes you throw caution to the wind and let them do it their way. And then they learn the lesson.

Calling them 'naughty' and insisting on your way with no explanation is antiquated parenting. You're free to do it, but if you're playing the long-game, it's not at all effective.

DOwager I agree with you BUT only when their preferences don't negatively affect others.

My MIL is a terror for giving in to my nephew who is 3. She arrives to visit us in her car with my nephew....but he doesn't want to get out of the car yet as he's watching something on her phone.

So does she make him? No. She stands outside the car, gently perseuding him for HALF AN HOUR.

Whilst my children who are excited to see her and nephew have to wait patiently. It doesn't matter that they've been waiting for the morning to show her something they've made for her.

ALl that matters is that MIL doesn't upset my nephew...who at 3 can JUST get away with his dicating but in a year? Won't be so cute.

Far enough user, my post was directed more to the OP, and more about the examples he gave as so-called naughty.

Yes, he seems misguided about the words. It's not really naughty or misbehaving to act like a toddler and want things your own way...but it IS ignorant of the adult in charge of them to pander to toddlers when other people are affected.

YABU

children are showing emotion. It's adults like you that knock their self esteem, understanding of compromise, empathy and patience.

I get your frustration mind you, but sometimes we have to take a step back and see it through the child's eyes

I'm with you, OP. Although the extent to which GP are able to punish children is something to be discussed with parents, it is blindingly obvious that a 6 year old needs to do as they are told. Encouraging them to tantrum and question isn't a clever stratagem for creating a child 'with their own mind' (believe me, they have their own mind whether you encourage it or not!) it is just a road to creating a spoiled little shit. As you said, listening to a child and allowing a them a voice is a good thing. Letting them get away with any behaviour is a bad thing.

Of course on major issues child should be listened too. But over what shoes to wear / what seat to sit in in the car / what colour Plate to have is just an excuse for attention. I think this should be regarded as wrong.

No, bad behaviour isn't to be rewarded and yes, tantrumming etc is frustrating, but these children are under 6 - to you, these things may seem insignificant but a 6 year old is not worrying about their tax bill or Brexit - to them, these are the major events and concerns of their small lives. Next time one of them kicks up a huge fuss, put yourself in their place and imagine instead of being told to put their wellies on, you've just received a tax bill from HMRC for £60k. That's how those 'insignificant' things feel to them.

Becoming overwhelmed emotionally isn't naughty as it's something they cannot control at 6 (due to brain development). Being naughty would be throwing a tantrum where she threw the wellies at her grandparents/ran away/started hitting. Those are choices they make.

I agree with the op on one area. I would never change my mind if my 6 year old dc cried or tantrummed to get their own way. If they wanted to explain why they wanted to wear particular shoes, then fine I'd listen, but by 6 there's no way they should still be crying to get their own way.

But coming to it now is probably a huge shock to the system so you have my sympathy. My parents in their 60's used to believe that children were mini adults and smacking when naughty was used. But development is now better understood and they wouldn't be allowed to smack my DC. My DF has eventually learnt that talking DS out of a tantrum is quicker than overruling/forcing a stubborn DS out of one as well.

Next time one of them kicks up a huge fuss, put yourself in their place and imagine instead of being told to put their wellies on, you've just received a tax bill from HMRC for £60k. That's how those 'insignificant' things feel to them.

As an adult it is my job to help them manage these emotions by pointing out that there is no extreme negative e consequence here.

"I want to wear the red shoes!"

"It's very muddy, you need to wear your wellies."

Tantrum.

"Why do you want to wear the red shoes?"

"They're red!"

"The wellies have red ladybirds on them. What will happen if you wear them?"

"My feet will be dry."

"And red! Okay, put them on."

I think most adults should be able to feel their way round an argument with a 6 year old without resorting to shouting back or punishing them.

But at the end of the day, the adult decides.

Just chipping in to say that at 6-7 yr old, you can expect LOTS of defiance. They are in between being little kids (so can still throw an almighty tantrum) and being big kids (where they have a bit more autonomy). So they want to choose what to do/wear/go but haven't got the sense to manage it themselves a lot of the time.

I am experiencing LOTS of power struggles and find it exhausting and depressing. Giving choices over little things and a half hour to an hour a day where DS gets to lead play helps keep the rudeness/open defiance down a lot But it is a seriously cranky age for some independent- minded children. Its hard to get it right as a parent. We keep a hard line on really bad behaviour (aggression, rudeness)- being sent to your room to calm down and removal of a toy/screen time if it continues . We also reward for good behaviour (speaking respectfully about preferences, likes and dislikes). And hope that this shall pass soon!

It's good you have sounded mother's out because what you think is actually the opposite of how it works. Children are fine generally with the big rules, but get most upset and tantrums ensure over the colour of plates, shoes to the park, which way round to hold a piece of cheese... I.e. things we as adults can recogbize as trivial. They are living in a world where they have next to no control. The trick is to give them the illusion of control. E.g. you decide you are going to the park, not open to debate, but they get to chose the red or the blue shoes, which toy to take along, which music in the car etc. Your role is also NOT discipline. Nor is it really Grandma's unless he has them all day every day. You are there to have fun, keep the peace and make them feel safe and happy. Otherwise if you are always strict and unfun they will just resent you and start to refuse to come or not engage with you any more as soon as they have a choice.

Adult tells you what to do. You do it. Not up for debate.

I totally disagree with this statement. When 'ordering' children to do things, I believe it is important to make them understand the reason. Children or not, they should be treated with respect.

Haven't read the whole thread, but here's my two cents.

The things that you are calling minor issues, that the child should capitulate on? By expecting that capitulation, you're sending the message that actually, they ARE major issues. Your issue from what you wrote is that you don't believe they should have the right to force these minor issues. But isn't that exactly what you're doing?

There are two sides in this equation: the child, and the adult. The adult should be in charge, but the adult also has to ask themselves, how am I helping this situation by digging my heels in and making this a battle when it doesn't need to be?

Kids are unreasonable sometimes. They lack emotional maturity. hey do kick off because they were given the green plate when don't you KNOW they're supposed to have the red plate and all food tastes YUCKY off the green plate!??

What you need to do, is take a breath. The color of the plate doesn't matter, what matters is that the child eats something. So give in. Likewise with other trivial matters. Let the child assert some sort of control over his/her world - it actually leads to FEWER tantrums, (n my humble experience) when kids don't feel like every aspect of their lives is in someone else's hands.

Let the baby, to use a common phrase, have his bottle. Save your strength, your patience, and your credibility for when it REALLY matters - like being destructive or causing harm to the child themselves or others.

I say "credibility" because as much as you might think "you are the adult", if the child sees YOU kicking off over every little thing, it's going to mean a lot less when you REALLY need to put your foot down.

Good on you for coming here to ask though! The sign of a good parent/grandparent isn't that you have all the answers, it's that you care enough about the child/children to ask for help because you know you don't have all the answers

Janeofalltrades1:

There are times when questioning is fine, and I don't mind helping the child to understand why I need them to do X. But there are going to be (very rare) occasions when it is essential that they do as I said first time, no questions. By insisting that they do this sometimes when it isn't that important, I am training them on how to respond when it is important. "Because I said so" can save a child's life.