To think no, ds (10) does not 'need a slap' for calling me a penis

[theduchessstill]

I have a relative staying with me and today my dc came back having spent a week on holiday with their dad. We have a system going whereby they remove dead creatures (cat-kill) from the house for a small reward - ds1's current choice is Match Attax cards. On the night before the holiday, ds1 cleaned up a mouse for me and another one in the morning before he left. I told him his two packs would be waiting for him when he got back.

Well, I got the wrong ones (why are there so many types?). I handed them over and he opened them as usual and it all seemed fine. I casually said "they are the right ones aren't they?" and he hesitated a bit and then said "It's fine, don't worry," but I sort of interrupted and said, among other things, "If you'd said straight away before opening them we could have taken them back." At that point his manner changed and he started shouting and said various things such as that he does slave labour for nothing, he hates me, I'm stupid and a penis (!).

I asked him what had got into him and he said he was angry with himself because if he'd told me straight away we could have changed them. He was struggling with feelings of disappointment, knowing he was being rude and all the rest of it. Throughout the rest of the evening he keep veering between being a bit tearful, saying he hated me, but was also very clingy and cuddly.

Put the dc to bed and came down looking forward to a glass of wine with relative and she was sitting waiting to launch an attack on how ridiculous it all was - I'm too soft on him, there's something wrong with him, her dc would have had a slap for that carry on blah blah. I tried to laugh it off a bit, but she persisted so I told her we'd better leave it as we weren't going to agree, and now she's gone to bang around in the kitchen.

AIBU? I think he was tired, overwhelmed (first time they've been away from me for more than 4 days and they'd had a 5 hour journey plus breaks) and began by trying to do the right thing. I honestly don't think he would have told me had I not mentioned taking them back.

Yes yellowfrog anything to do with a disciplining a child seems to bring out the worst in some posters. And the picking up and disposing of dead cat "presents" is a complete non issue.

frog that is rewarding bad behaviour. He called his mother a penis. Had he just huffed and puffed and sulked after his mother mentioned returning them when he was trying to downplay they were the wrong cards. Ok. But he chose to insult her

No slaps, but my 10 year old would have had 10 minutes on the naughty step for an outburst of that kind.

With regard to the dead animals, it just doesn't sit quite right with me.

For one they carry disease and I wouldn't trust a kid to do it properly.

I'm all for chores, cleaning their own room, helping with washing, setting the table, hoovering, putting bins out. Benefit the whole family.

Cleaning up the cats kill just seems likes giving them disgusting jobs on your behalf, that's only my opinion of course.

I suppose it's part and parcel of having pets.

Your son sounds lovely OP. Trying to be all grown up about his disappointment, and then being upset because it's only made the situation worse.

It's so tough on them, moving between parents, and needing to check the boundaries are still where they were when they went away. And he's probably navigating all that with a storm of hormones going on.

And "penis" is just hilarious!

I hope you don't feel pressured into riding him too hard for this. Sounds like he alreday knows he's in the wrong.

Also as to clearing up dead animals, my dc used to have a competition going as to who could get to the dead thing first. (No payments involved.) If dc can call OP a penis, I'm sure he'd feel able to tell her if he felt uncomfortable clearing up dead things.

I get called 'stupid' and 'penis ' regularly by my 10yr old. Drives me nuts.

Naughty step at 10?? Seriously? Good luck with that. What would you do with a 13 year old?

The whole point of being a child is that you're still learning and can't regulate your emotions and reactions as well as an adult does (or should!), especially when tired or hungry. Trying to discipline an already exhausted and upset child can escalate the situation. Ten is more than old enough to deal with it the next morning when he's rested and his 10yo brain will have a more rational reaction than an emotive one.
I get ratty when I'm tired too.
As for your relative, she saw you have a difficult time with your son and instead of supporting you, decided to criticise you and berate you in your own home, and then act very childishly by banging about in the kitchen. Her behaviour doesn't have the benefit of coming from a place of being overtired and (age-wise at least) immature. She was really rude.
Also at posters being horrified by a 10yo picking up dead mice. I grew up on a farm and saw/did a lot worse than that at that age.

I think it's fine for the 10 yr old to dispose of dead mouses too. They are old enough to do it cleanly imo. And they get a reward which is fair enough.
The only thing I would do differently is not have told him he could have exchanged the cards if he hadn't opened them. A bit like saying "Look what you could have won! ". It would have been better to say oh bad luck but we will get you some more very soon (next time you do your cleaning duties).

Hope everyone is having a lovely Easter.

Just to reiterate, ds has no qualms whatsoever about cleaning the dead stuff. I do supervise and ensure thorough hand washing after. They really are tiny things - he's not scraping yards of intestine off the floor! On the rare occasion a bird is brought, ds2 loves getting the hoover out to get all the feathers up.

I do agree I shouldn't have made the comment about taking them back. It was pointless, but I just said what came into my head in exasperation. The silly thing is, I wasn't 100% sure about them and had kept the receipt, so was angry at myself for not handing them over and asking him straight away whether they were correct. Oh well, lesson learnt.

The Easter Bunny had brought him another 5 packs for today, so I explained about that at bedtime yesterday and he thanked me for keeping the receipt.

Tbh, I don't get all the angst about him calling me a penis. Yes, it's rude but also very childish and the way he was clearly searching for something awful to say and that was what came out was actually quite comical - though obviously I didn't laugh at him.

I also feel that, yes, it is hard for him going to between me and his dad, and that is another reason I didn't come down on him too much for this. Talking is the key I think.

Oh, and thankfully relative is on her way later today. Think four days is the absolute maximum for a house guest.

I think your relative was out of order. In my world, a slap does mean physical violence, and I can very much see why your son reacted and spoke the way he did. He was tired, routines and family life all out of kilter, then found out that if he hadn't been as polite as he was when getting cards which weren't quite right, the situation could have been retrieved.

And getting children to remove dead creatures from the house in exchange for rewards is inspired!

I hope you're all having a lovely day today!

"Because children don't usually react like adults to blood and body parts?" No, they are usually a bloody sight more sensible!
And as for carrying disease, surely 10 year olds wipe their own bottoms and wash their hands properly afterwards? And surely a 10 year old could change a baby siblings nappy, clean out pet cages or change a baby sibling's nappy? Or pick up dog poo?

Hi OP

I think yanbu, and you need to apply the same lovely understanding to your relative as to DC. Hopefully you will gently be able to help them understand.

My DD often comes back a bit over wrought from her dad's house and I think it's quite common to lash out at someone you are close to who you know you can rely on to still love you anyway.

I actually would say "he needs a slap" meaning "he needs a good talking to"....as would may of my friends. Maybe it's regional (North west)
And I'd be absolutely horrified at a 10 year old speaking to his mother in the way you describe. It's totally out of line in a NT child and shouldn't be tolerated. Extraordinary what lengths people go to to excuse appalling behaviour. I teach 10 year olds (not in UK). The majority of them wouldn't dream of speaking to their mothers like that....they might try it once but their feet wouldn't touch the ground after. Honestly.

You don't get the big deal about your son calling you names? A penis is probably the worst insult a 10 year old can think of on the spur of the moment. He was blatantly rude and disrespectful and if he will speak to his own mother like that then I can't say I'd hold out much hope for how he speaks to others when you aren't around. If you condone it now, which you are, by not challenging it or giving any consequence, then you are saying it is fine and normal. So in a few years time when he is stressed out from school and upset/tired or whatever and turns round and calls you a cunt or tells you to fuck off, will that be fine too?

After all it's the same attitude and intent, he just doesn't have the vocabulary yet. I can't believe any parent puts up with this and thinks it is no big deal? My parents would have knocked me into next week for that. Smacks were rare for me as a child but that would have earned me one and I would have richly deserved it. And I say that as someone who has never smacked either of my children btw.

I'm another one gobsmacked that you're okay with your child talking to you like that. I can't even imagine mine talking to me like that. My mind is boggling here.

How on earth is a ten year old boy too young to deal with dead rodents? Messing about with rather gross things is what ten year old boys traditionally spent their time doing before the digital age. Catching tadpoles, burying dead goldfish and digging them up later to "have a look", chasing woodlice with magnifying glasses, catching spiders, putting worms in teachers' desk drawers ...

Crikey, back when I was at primary school, one of the things you did in your final year was dissect a frog!

DD poked a dead shark with a stick on holiday. She was very disappointed she couldn't get to it's heart.

All this angst over a dead mouse.

Oh yes the corner stone of good parenting lets teach them violence to resolve things

I think you did absolutely the right thing! You talked to him about why he behaved as he did and he saw the error of his ways. Teaching him to manage his emotions properly by discussing them, and having him think about what he could have done better, is a far more effective parenting method than a slap!

Oh yawn at all the people demanding 'respect' - then talking about how they would have been 'knocked into next weekend' for saying penis. Is that respect? That's not what I would call respect. It's certainly not how I would want to teach my children respect.

My 15 year old has shocking language at home with us and with his friends - he's also actually (so far) one of the easiest 15 year olds I know. He's always where he says he is. He doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs (plenty of his grammar school friends do btw). He has also worked a lot in the theatre where the language is often choice (and was told by the director of a west end touring show as a 9 year old 'don't do it like that or you'll fuck it up' - I think every set of notes that guy gave was littered with swearing. I didn't know at the time - ds2 told me later). We've been watching theatre shows where things have gone wrong with the set and he's leaned over to tell me that the air backstage will be blue at that moment. Most techs are one long swearing session apparently. He's been working on devising a short play this Easter as part of a very small cast of teens with a professional theatre director. Swearing was certainly allowed by the director as some made it into the show. Anyway it's hypocritical to tell him not to swear when the adults around him do.

The key is knowing when it's appropriate to swear. He's never been in trouble for swearing at school and being 'disrespectful' would not be tolerated in many of the activities he does so he seems to be able to distinguish between appropriate and not appropriate and when swearing will be considered disrespectful and when it won't.

If not swearing at you or around you is important to you then by all means don't allow it (ds2 remembered his grandmother doesn't like swearing yesterday and apologised without prompting when he used a swear word in front of her - he was talking to me 'oh whoops sorry granny I meant it was very big'). But don't make out your reaction to a ten year saying 'penis' defines you as some sort of wonder parent. Given the situation described by the OP I would see the use of penis as a sign of how tired and upset he was about everything and react accordingly. If you think knocking your child into next weekend because they're upset and tired will teach 'respect' then crack on. It's not what I would choose to do, but each to their own.

I think you have handled this well and glad he got more cards for Easter. Also glad your rel is going home! I would ask if anything happened to upset him at his Dad s while he was away to make him extra emotional when he got home.

What Devilishpyjamas said! As a kid I was sometimes rude to my parents, when in situations akin to the one the OPs son was in. I was never ever rude to a teacher/etc, I was polite and kind and I've turned out as an ok adult. Being rude to the people closest to you, when tired, upset, frustrated etc is not some calamitous sign that the child in question will be an uncontrolable monster if left unchecked. theduchessstill - crack on with what you're doing - your boy sounds lovely, and I'm glad he was able to get some more cards so soon :)

Pyjamas

I'm one of them posters shocked at the penis comment, funnily enough I've never once even tapped my children's hands yet they've never disrespected me like that.

My friends son started off just 'emotional' and outbursts with names like penis. By 12 it soon escalated to dickhead and fuckoff. Boundaries are there for a reason. Im quite a laid back parent too but definitely wouldn't tolerate that as moody banter.