42k in Reading?

[NervousNellie29]

AIBU to think that a family of four will struggle to survive on a salary of 42k a year pretax while renting?

@UppityHumpty there actually is a huge cost of living difference between where we are and Reading. You pay A LOT more in Reading for a lot less.

But how is there no money left for food?
You said the pay increase after tax was £300 a month, and the rent and council tax increase was £330.
So - it's almost neutral.

I think it's especially a problem as your marriage is in trouble anyway.

But leaving that aside, I do think you're finding barriers that aren't there. Like the cost of formula - your baby is 8 months. In just 4 months you won't be using formula.

You haven't explained the long term prospects.

Would I trade a bigger house in Glos for slightly less money a month and no further progression? No.

Would I stick children in same room and re-work how the sleep (they'll adapt!) or keep baby in cot in my room for two years knowing that my husband's salary would increase and I'd have more work options myself? Yes I would.

Honestly though, if you're in counselling now I wouldn't move. Send him off on a weekly board basis, or renting a room. The £300 a month will go a long way to paying for that (about half). If you divorce you don't want to be stuck away from family support.

I totally hear your frustration that he don't negotiate - but tbh I know (from time working in HR) when salary actually hasn't been negotiable.

What I would push back on is where you live. I really don't see that they can force that at all. So live further out, and cheaper.

But... only after you decide if you even want to be with him.

Why is it the second move in 3 months?

@Ellisandra sorry I worded wrong idk how it even came out that way. Meant there is a 300 salary difference after tax and rent and council another 330 on top of that. So 630 in total.

UppityHumpty how did your cousin get the deposit for his flat?

And I think also, it's harder to move for career when the kids are older and in school, and you're back at work. I say do what you can and make the sacrifices early for long term gain.

But as I said before, depends whether you see a genuine long term gain.

If this an extra £5Kpa for a dead end, or is this a stepping stone that's going to lead to the salary that allows you to go to university in a couple of years so that you get a chance to advance your career and wants?

He was in his base role with them for a year, they moved him up to take over for his boss temporarily, then offered permanently which required us to move here. Not even two months after having us sign a 12 month fixed term lease they offer him another promotion at HO that requires another move
Very annoying and seems not very thought out.

Sorry if I read that wrong!
I do still think you're blinkered on the accommodation.
He can say "yes" to the policy and then "sorry, there wasn't anywhere".

Have a look at weekly room rents. South Glos to Reading is an easy weekly commute and his salary increase will cover a big chunk of the cost.

So are they buying you out of the lease? Because if not, surely it's a moot point and he's not doing anywhere?

It sounds like he's done really well, to get the promotion quickly. It's not always about not being thought out - people move on, circumstances change. You see it as something not thought out, I see it as a fab piece of luck that suddenly got him his permie manager role!

Yes three moves in a year and a half is horrific

I'm concerned though that a weekly commute might actually spell the end of your marriage as you are already in trouble.

Has the counsellor given any helpful tips about communicating when you are outside the sessions? It sounds as if your husband is making no effort to has not been able to take on any of the techniques for listening, or at least if he listens at the time, that's as good as it gets and he then completely ignores what you have said

Fundamentally I do think you could kind of make it work in Reading on that salary. However, I see why you damn well don't want to.

Where would you like to live? What would you like to do? Is the answer really the US? Is that an option for you all?

And moves into HO are often very good for career progression - more so than branch to branch.

What do you think of his company? Do they just expect people to jump and don't give anything back? Or do they deliver on promises and this is a genuine opportunity for him, and you as a family?

It is an American company. Go in and ask for GBP50k and they will happily give you GBP45K and be slapping themselves on the back for 'negotiating' such a good deal. I live in the NYC area and always make sure I audit payroll so I know what pay is and what is available. Trust me when I say the correspondence I see is highly suspect sometimes.

If they are insisting you move to an expensive area in Reading they need to pay for the whole cost of the move. They would here for an American employee. Also, they need to either give you a housing stipend of the difference in rent between your current home and the same home in the area is Reading they want you to move to or pay GBP50k. They will happily come back and pay GBP45k.

I don't think 3 moves in a year is horrific at all. And it sounds like only 2 anyway, unless they moved to the place to start the base role. (sounds like they were local as OP has family there?)
It's not nothing, but it's really not horrific.

I do agree that a weekly commute could end the marriage. But I know if my marriage was at near breaking point anyway, I'd rather split not having moved, and not now feeling I'm stuck in a more expensive place away from family, feeling that I shouldn't move my kids away from their father.

On balance, I do think weekly boarding is an option worth considering. Especially if the next career move is likely to be back out of HO.

@annandale oh god I wish I could explain the full situation but I imagine it would be very outing if anyone on here knows us IRL.
It's so beyond ridiculous. Basically the root of our issues is something to do with his childhood/parents and it all ties in with his job and his wanting to do so well. So it ends up being work and his parents on one end of the scale and the kids and myself on the other. And usually it leans a bit more on the parents/work side

I like where we are now mainly because we're so close to his family who I really get on with and they've been a great support to myself and the kids. Also because I was able to pick out this house and it's a new build and it's just perfect IMO for the family.
If we didn't have to downsize and I knew we could be alright financially I wouldn't mind moving. I would be entirely fine, even ecstatic because his main goal was to end up at HO and work his way up in there. However I feel like this is happening while I lose my friends and the family we have here and having to be crammed into a smaller home. I don't want to have to move again so I want to be somewhere that we can be comfortable for a few years.

Before I knew they had only offered 42k and how little we would actually have we looked into me going back to school and things like that (which my DM had offered to help us pay for on loan because we thought we could afford the childcare). Now it just seems like I'll be stuck in the role I'm in, at least until the kids are both in school. I honestly just wish he thought about my/the kids comfort and progression along with his own.

Want2b I'm all for negotiating hard, but your experience is NYC. Some of my friends work for US companies in UK offices. £42K for an M4 corridor base really isn't a high status employee - no way would those companies (or my big UK one) pay the difference in rent.

Why did you think it would be £45-50K, OP? That could be part of his negotiatin, if there's good reason to expect that remuneration.

@Ellisandra this company basically wants "yes" men and women. If someone questions anything or any decision at all, however lightly, they are let go. They basically choose people who are less qualified because they know they will do what they ask every time with no question.

Weekly board, weekly board, weekly board...

And take your mother up on her kind offer to help with returning to education.

it's really tough, to have to make decisions like this in the shadow of marital problems.

@Ellisandra I can't answer the 45-50k question without fully outing the situation sadly. But basically the position he's in and connections he has in the company he could probably ask for 10k more and get it. He just will not ask for anything. He wouldn't even ask for days off for my appointments during pregnancy.

I live in a 3 bed in a large village outside of reading. Rent is about 1100 per month but its a very nice area bu junction 12 of m4. Council tax is 127 per month. We earn about 36k between us and i pay 1000 a month in nursery fees. We have a mortgage of 400. Still its tight. However if you are a sahm you are in a better position financially. Just check which side of reading you need to be as the traffic can be murder.

Right - so, devil's advocate - can you see why he isn't negotiating on pay? You really think they'd bend?

I know I sound pro-move, but I'm trying to separate what is his fault from what isn't.

Again, long term view. Does he want to progress there? If he wants to switch company, does he have more opportunities in Reading? (I'm guessing yes) Do you? Longer term.

If you were prepared to make the move and the crux of the issue is the rent, then fuck this company's policy, smile and nod and rent further out more cheaply

And stick with the counselling!

If you think he may not stay there long - I'm back to weekly boarding again

Cross posted, me saying I can see why he won't ask for more but you saying he can.

Hard ball then.

£50K and we move with you.
£42K and you're weekly boarding.

Leave it with him.

Both options support his career and your marriage.

@Ellisandra I probably miss-worded as I'm doing a billion things at once. I think they would 100% give it if he asks.
The reason he doesn't ask is he wants to not seem like a "problem" and wants to impress them.
People very high up in company have told me he should be negotiating as they should be/would definitely give him more

Yes I suppose I'm coming from my current position which is I moved in 2003 and hope never to move again I certainly have done 3 moves in 18 months but not with small children usually with about 52 plastic bags crammed into a Ford Fiesta and, crucially, always moves that I wanted to do, not moves I was being forced to do.

I'm worried that you feel you have to wait for the counselling session to even talk to him again about this. Really the counselling should be giving you structures and techniques to use outside the sessions.

He's mad not to negotiate. It's not just about providing for his family, it's also about proving his worth at work. Nobody will think he's a problem if he negotiates - EVERYONE negotiates. They'll think he's a pushover if he doesn't. And in five years' time when he wants a promotion the fact that he's on a low salary for his role will ring alarm bells - because they'll have forgotten by then that he didn't negotiate and at best, give him the promotion but at the lowest possible salary or worst assume that he's a poor performer and not give him it. It's also terrible when applying for roles in new companies as it massively impacts your negotiating power.

Nothing like a move in a Fiesta!!

OP, that's your selling point right there. (not the Fiesta )

Your husband wants to look like a success to his parents and a good employee to the company, yes? Can you get him to reframe negotiating more not as being a problem but as showing that he's a negotiator, and worth it?

And get him to fantasise about walking into his parents' house swinging his cock and baring his chest and saying "and of course I said - only for another £8K, which of course they gave"?

I would usually say he needs to get over parental shit but... needs must