Parenting - easier now or 'back in the day'?

[Coughandsplutter]

Posting for traffic tbh. Ive got a toddler of 2.5 and a baby of 4 weeks. Yesterday I was chatting to parents about how bringing up kids has changed. Mum was telling me about her silver cross pram with seat fitted on top for me to sit on while sibling was in pram. She was on about terry towelling nappies and having to boil them clean. It wasn't a "we had it tougher" conversation, just a comparison between times. My parents didn't have much money or grandparent support so perhaps their situation is different from most. Mum had no car so everywhere she went was on the bus or walking. We talked about how pubs, supermarkets, shopping centres etc are all now very child friendly with changing facilities etc.

Not really expressing myself well as I'm very tired but what do others think. Was bringing up kids in 70-80s harder? Or 50s? Or was it just different pressures? Was life simpler then in some ways - no Facebook photo 'competitions' of who's having best Easter and check ins to the latest trampoline Park. Or is it easier now?

*carrycots

No, I'm not attacking your generation. I haven't taken it personally when people have claimed that my children's generation is spoilt/entitled etc and nor should you.

I'm unclear on exactly what you'd like evidence on but let me know and I'll do my best.

I'm unclear on exactly what you'd like evidence on but let me know and I'll do my best

Try reading the thread!

You didn't need an estate car to put kids in the back! I'm looking in the boot of my car now and you could easily fit 2/3 children in. Nb I am not driving

streets are designed for cars not children.
Sorry but that's rubbish. The street I grew up on pre-dated cars by about 100 years!
I love to see children playing out, where it's safe.

Some things are better now, some better in the old days.
I think the car has a LOT to do with the changes in the way people bring up kids. In the 80s we did things locally-we walked to the park, or took the bus to somewhere a bit further afield, which was a, occasional day out. Where I live now, my son would get invitations to birthday parties at some giant activity centre off some motorway junction..and the kids expect this now. They expect constant new stuff, trampoline centres, day trips all the time.
Things have gone really really child centred now. Every weekend seems to be about the kids, people feel guilty for "dragging them round" the supermarket if they need to. I just never had any money,or any choice as I was a broke single parent, so would take dc shopping, the the park all the time, no money for softplay.
I remember feeling bad because I wasn't giving him what the other little kids seemed to have.
In the 70's/ 80s a lot of things were easier for the parents. Expectations were much lower. For children with responsible parents, this meant lots of freedom to play out, less anxious parents etc. For those of us with irresponsible parents it meant being left in dangerous situations a lot, being a bit neglected, being abused and not being believed etc.
I think that a lot of the reason my generation over-parent is that we are the children of the generation who were very focused on their own needs, and basically forgot about the children.
It has gone too far though. It would be nice to be able to have a conversation with my friends who have younger kids, to just say to the kids-go play, rather than paste on a fake smile as we get interrupted over and over...

That message was getting a bit long .

What I think has changed the most is

1. When I was small, all adults took responsibility for all children, and most importantly were seen to have the authority to do so. I know that's in part what led to the abuse scandals, but for most people that meant that if I did something wrong when I was out, my mother would know about it before I got home. If you got into difficulties, an adult would help you out. Now there's this "you can't tell my child" attitude.

2. My parents were told which school I was going to. Their only involvement after that was parent's evening. They weren't expected to get involved with homework or providing anything. We chose our DC schools, but homework was their responsibility. With our 10 yo we are now supposed to be involved far more than we'd like.

Some ordinary cars had a flat thing that converted the top of the boot on the inside to a shelf - you'd see very small kids on these sometimes.

The estate car kids looked wild and free to my childish eyes.

If you say go and play to kids, they'll go and play.

If you fuss over them and micromanage them, they'll be your kids forever.

I lived in Kenya as a child and we had those wonderful American stage wagons. They were absolutely huge! We loved sitting in the back behind the seats!

Living in Kenya must've been utterly amazing

It was brilliant. It was in the 1960's and everything was young and fresh. We lived in Nairobi - it was really modern. I have wonderful memories living there. I'd like to return but I feel I would be disappointed - sometimes better to keep the memories.

Sorry Squills I have and I still just don't know what evidence you want.

Starzzz - I was succinct in what I asked. If you can't see that then there's no point in continuing to discuss.

If you were so succinct you won't mind repeating, will you? :)

I think its arrogant in the extreme for us (more as a society than individuals) to think that our parenting is so much better than previus parenting. that we are loving, and they were neglectful. That we know better than they did.

Parenting has fads. The 'rules' change each generation, and approaches go in and out of fashion. We may look back in 30 years and be as scornful of our current approaches, as many are now of ones 30 years ago.

I'm expecting my first child pretty soon, and I'm intending on mixing approaches from past and present. I personally don't view our extremely child-centred approach as being particularly healthy, for parent or child. I think its dangerous for the child, as it teahces them the world revolves around them, and it can stifle their independence. Equally, its rubbish for the family, because it minimises the needs of the parents in a way that goes too far IMO. In essence, I believe its important for parents to not unecessarily martyr themselves upon the altar of parenthood, so that children can grow up as rounded adults, who can see that everyone in their family is important and loved.

Equally, I dislike some of the more extreme practices of the past, where children weren't given enough consideration/attention.

Who knows. In 100 years, we may think that both methods are nuts, as we all send our children to professional 'parents' for 18 years or something. Who knows what we will do then.

Ignorance is bliss!

A real theme here is how mothers worry too much these days and should just chill out and listen to the old folk who just knew best because they just did and people should stop interfering.

The reason we're told how to put babies to sleep on their backs etc is because children died when people just did what worked/felt right.

The reason parents are told how to prepare and keep formula is because children died when it wasn't done right.

The reason the HV comes to your house is to stop children dying because of these things, to prevent abuse and neglect and catch any problems to help kids as soon as possible. Don't take it personally! Be grateful that a baby won't die from being shaken because the HV picked up that the parents needed a bit of help. And that is fine! It's not just you and your baby that matters.

These guidelines are based on what has really happened in the past. People who say "my kids turned out fine" drive me crazy. It's not just about your kids! And did you ever consider you're just lucky?

Of course mums are fearful in a world where the things our parents did caused babies to die. It's a horrifying thought that we could kill our own children by putting them to sleep the wrong way in a house where someone smokes. How can we not read the very available information that will keep our babies safe? How can we not be anxious to get it right and keep them safe?

Of course things were easier without the knowledge we have now. As I previously said, things that would be considered neglect were just normal!

You would never hit a child now! It's against the law in some countries. It was very normal for me and my friends growing up though. I still despise my parents for it.

Maybe what the older parents are missing here too is a kids view of growing up then. I hated being bored all the time. I hated "go play in the garden" again and again. I really hated being hit. Perhaps the reason parents run around keeping their kids entertained and paying attention to them and loving them is simply that things weren't so great in the good old days? Maybe they want better things for their own children?

I agree that life was more physically demanding and fair enough if you need to get work done then you need to, but let's not pretend it's better for children to be ignored while you wander off and visit the neighbours or whatever.

I think the two posts there by Blue and iwas are really good.

It's not about saying - you brought your children up in the 80s so you were an awful parent. It really isn't. It's about saying - look, this used to be considered okay, and now it is not.

It's very difficult to compare unless looking at your own very individual circumstances. No childhood is the same. But I had a very happy one.

My parents were very strict and what I took from that is that I didn't want to be as strict as they were.

Starzzz I posted a number of comments directly referring to statements you made. I either quoted your posts in bold or specifically responded to them. I asked you to back up what you were alleging with evidence several times. You said nothing.

Perhaps you should check your facts before posting.

Squills, calm down. We're talking generalizations here. If you want to find out about vanishing children then go see google. These are just observations we've all made.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat I don't think any older person would dispute that correct sleeping for infants and non-smoky rooms are both really good developments in child-rearing!

Kids really didn't die like flies though, and a lot of the 'improvements' of today strike us oldies as future problems. Constant red-letter day events, for instance, will produce a generation of malcontents who think everything is about them. Actually that's happened already. And personally, I think co-sleeping with infants is crazily dangerous, especially as adults have become so much heavier.

Every generation sets up problems. The difference with oldies is that having been alive in both eras we have the benefit of hindsight and a shrewd idea of what might become a future problem.

To be honest I think people are actually parenting nowadays. In the olden days (presumably because only one person was at work), everyone was so stressed out that kids weren't even around their parents much except for meals and punishment etc.
How odd! I think that people now seem to be treating their children like little experiments. If I give x dose of affection, education, nutrition and 'activities' then they will turn into super humans. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that given that children are all unique.
I grew up in the 1960s and there were very few 'punishments'. We had a lovely childhood.

I had my children 25+ years ago, and was left a single parent when DC were quite young (exDH left for OW) worst thing was no free nursery places no tax credits and no subsidised childcare
Every penny I managed to get in maintenance was taken off my benefits penny for penny so didn't help at all
I could only work part time due to my ill health and disabilities
No exaggeration to say I nearly starved - I made sure DC ate and I lived on leftovers weak tea and toast - I lost 8 1/2 stone in less than 2 years
I also had no local family support
Thankfully once they were at school I managed to get a better paying job and could just make ends meet

My parents didnt have an estate car but I definitely sat in the boot for short journeys. I loved it! I was born in the 80s. I was also smacked and my husband who is a few years older than me had corporal punishment at school. My parents were extremely loving but it was normal then. Other parents were much harsher.

Comparing mine and my mum's life they are difficult in different ways. She still talks about how awful it was having a prem baby (my older sister) who wouldn't feed and the nappies etc. But whilst she had a professional job it was very part time when we little and she didn't have the fear of messing up her career. I'm definitely expected to do more stuff.

I come from a farming background. Used to be carried home on top of giant trailer loads of hay or turf. It was the payoff for having helped (and I do mean proper help) save the loads.