Parenting - easier now or 'back in the day'?

[Coughandsplutter]

Posting for traffic tbh. Ive got a toddler of 2.5 and a baby of 4 weeks. Yesterday I was chatting to parents about how bringing up kids has changed. Mum was telling me about her silver cross pram with seat fitted on top for me to sit on while sibling was in pram. She was on about terry towelling nappies and having to boil them clean. It wasn't a "we had it tougher" conversation, just a comparison between times. My parents didn't have much money or grandparent support so perhaps their situation is different from most. Mum had no car so everywhere she went was on the bus or walking. We talked about how pubs, supermarkets, shopping centres etc are all now very child friendly with changing facilities etc.

Not really expressing myself well as I'm very tired but what do others think. Was bringing up kids in 70-80s harder? Or 50s? Or was it just different pressures? Was life simpler then in some ways - no Facebook photo 'competitions' of who's having best Easter and check ins to the latest trampoline Park. Or is it easier now?

I have a 19 year old and a 11 week old. I found it a lot easier 19 years ago than I do now. The pressure these days is immense and I am frowned upon by some mum's these days as I don't conform to the pressure filled yummy mummy, can have it all if you don't mind the anxiety of it all parenting these days.

I am going back to work when bubs will be 6 months. I can't afford anymore time off than that. And to be honest I'm looking forward to it. I like my career. I love being a mum but I want more than that.

I don't do it all by the book these days. I'm not reckless with the baby's health but I'm also not totally strict and follow all the rules.

Kids did used to travel in the back of estate cars. That was quite common.
One of my earliest memories (I was just short of 4) was moving house, a couple of hours drive away. My parents didn't drive and they couldn't afford the rail or bus fares, so the movers put our settee along the back of the van, facing outwards and left the top half of the door up so we all sat on it looking out.
Can you imagine anyone doing that today? Got to say, it was awesome though.

For my 9kg washing machine and dryer alone,parenting must be, on balance, easier.

But I don't think that there was this constant surveillance of other people's parenting that there is now. Or an expectation that every event should measure up to a Pinterest worthy collage. I think how people deal with these particular pressures is highly variable and for those who aren't resilient to this pressure to 'perform' as a good parent are crushed by the audience's demands.

Oddly, the childhood you are describing then starz is a generation after mine, I was in 6th form when you were being born, so it is clearly a case of everyone's experience and recollections being different.

Also have to disagree about shit parenting being applauded back then. You only have to see threads on here and JK style shock docs on Channel 4 to see that however shit parents are these days, there's some do-gooder comes running to say "it's not their fault". I remember one particular family at my school (70s) where the parents literally, and in public view, beat one of the boys into school with a stick. We then watched open-mouthed as the headmaster (already ancient) threatened to take the stick off the dad and beat him with it.

Wrt to children disappearing etc, I think back then it was statistically so rare it held front page headlines for much longer. I'd be interested to see if actual child murders have increased or decreased since then. I'd bet on increased. There was also the same old "bogeyman" scaremongering that there is npw. Except then it was on weird TV public safety commercials about men offering you sweeties, and now forums like this and its prevalent paedo-noia does the job just fine on its own.

I think possibly child murders have not changed but that abductions by strangers are rare in this country at any rate. (They were always 'rare' but not as rare as people think.)

I don't think it's scaremongering either.

Hard to say, Squills. I don't know exactly when 'then' stopped being 'then' because it was a very gradual shift

The thing is starzzzz you've made some pretty bold statements about how neglectful we were as parents and yet you clearly weren't even born then and obviously have a very distorted view of recent history. You mention the 80's being 'peppered' with children vanishing - care to elaborate?

I think there's a big difference between saying that 'a child travelled in the back of an estate car' to 'a child was put in the boot'.

People travelled without seat belts for many many years... my father had a Bedford van which had sliding front doors and would travel with the doors open, no seatbelt and the three of us sitting on the front bench seat - no problem. It was the done thing at the time, especially for delivery drivers. It is not fair to say parents were negligent - it was acceptable at the time.

I have to say that I find it really annoying that some posters make comments about older people which, if they were directed at a racial minority, would be deemed totally unacceptable.

I don't remember the word 'Parent' being used as a verb.

I think it was better when I was a child (60's/70's) and when I had my children ( 90's).

People didn't feel the need to label themselves as an x or y parent because it didn't exist. You had children and cared for them instinctively. Most Mums did not work out of the home and their children were their main priority. Children did not have to compete with their Parent's jobs for attention.

Playing out developed social skills, independence etc. Of course it matters where you live, if you were raised on a busy street with lots of traffic it wouldn't be possible.

I think children were better behaved too.

I think somethings are easier now. My MiL had her children in the early 80s in the west midlands and says she was considered freakish for wanting to breastfed her kids, that the only advice she was given was to stick to a strick 3 hour feeding schedule and every time she went to the clinic for help they would send her home with bottles of formula. Now, breastfeeding support isn't perfect now but it's a lot better than that.

On the other hand, she also tells of how she was kept in hospital for a week after her routine birth. Given 'lessons' on how to change nappies and bath the baby while there. And the nurses would take the baby away for a nap if she needed to sleep. I was home 24 hours after arriving, completely exhausted and had no idea what I was doing.

No, I haven't squills. I don't think you personally are neglectful. Growing up with loving parents like yourself is fine whether you're born in the 50s or 2000s. Also, awful parenting has always existed - I don't think the fact Baby P was born in 2006 made any difference to his awful fate, to use an extreme example.

However, here's the thing. The olden days are sometimes harked back to - I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen Facebook memes about how wonderful it was back when we were kids, we played out ALL day and wasn't that great apart from the kids who were murdered or run over or drowned or came to a similar grisly end and we got a clip round the ear if we were cheeky but it wasn't just a clip sometimes and we showed respect for teachers and old people except if you had special needs and couldn't but you were just rude, right

The point is I think children now have a voice. That's not ALWAYS a good thing but take, for example, the sex abuse scandal in north wales - I can't imagine Alison Taylor would have been silenced so effectively nowadays. And that's why sexual abuse was so common (fwiw I think we've only just touched the tip of the iceberg) because children had to do what adults said, and if they did not they were smacked.

Now I am NOT saying this is how YOU did this - I'm saying as a prevailing view, it was one generally nodded to as acceptable.

Am I saying things are perfect now - absolutely, categorically no. But I do think there's a tendency to believe things were whimsically wonderful back in the day and I really don't think that they were.

I agree that the child centric way of life is OTT these days. Parents running themselves ragged spending time with each child or else they feel guilty, getting them from judo on a Monday to tennis in a Tuesday, with a gruffalo costume by Wednesday. I don't think it's a healthy way of parenting. I think the children don't appreciate how it is so focused round them.
But they are only one member of the family. What about mum and dad? What about when the child becomes a twenty year old and realises how tough the world is and that it doesn't revolve around them.

I think we will look back at this era of parenting and question ourselves as to how we got it so wrong, so unbalanced.

I was born in the early 60s. My friends thought we were rich because we had a car, a colour TV (rented), a phone (paid for by the FA) and we went abroad for holidays (parents did house swaps with Dutch and Germans).

DM worked mornings term time and DF worked 9-5. I did loads of activities, Brownies/Guides, ballet, modern, tap and national dancing, piano lessons. I walked to school on my own from about 6, and took myself off to dancing on the bus.It didn't occur to my DPs to take me anywhere. On Saturdays we went to picture club while they went to Tesco (yes supermarkets did exist then) and the market. In the afternoon DF played sport and we had to go as well. We met up with the other players kids and played unsupervised in woods and fields for hours on end.

As a baby I was regularly left to cry down the end of the garden or shut in my room. This has led to lifelong MH problems.

My DC were born in the mid-late 80s. I went back to work when the eldest was 4 because I couldn't bear the isolation of being a SAHM. I don't recognise the picture others paint of the 1980s at all. We had a car, used disposable nappies and went out regularly.

We smacked our DC, and all our friends smacked theirs. We left them in the car while we went to the supermarket - all in a row at the front of the shop. We got to choose a school - you actually went to the school and put your name down; we got 2 offers and I still think I picked the wrong one.

squills I can't tell you how much time I spent in the boot of a moving car! Me and my sisters used to fight to get the boot. It was so common! We also used to sit in the back of dads work van, in amongst all the tools 😭

Justsaying and Squills your perception is somewhat distorted and probably comes from watching too much call the midwife.
Babies round here still go in the big pram and are pushed around village and up to see the chickens and goats. Playschool children still go to the local recreation ground, walking along the side of the road holding a big rope.
Back then (80s) my children were all breastfed for over two years (all six, including twins). They were never allowed to 'play out' on the street as we don't have closely located neighbours but they could go and build dens in the copse or walk across the fields for a picnic from school age.
What has changed is common sense and proportionality. Mothers seem to have lost the ability to recognise and differentiate between minor complaints and serious ill health. I think part of that is media 'awareness' campaigns that terrify and partly lack of generational wisdom. Grannies/sensible older mothers who had significant prior experience are now dismissed in favour of google. I look at some of the posts about the most minor issues with incredulity.
I also think we, as a society, don't bother to make the effort with maintaining relationships. First tactless comment and there are cries of emotional abuse and narcissism. Of course, there are some abuses but for most its hedonism and egocentricity replacing shared living and commitment. Different stresses bringing children up together but probably easier overall.

starzzz You made sweeping generalisations about the neglectful parenting doled out by people of my generation.

You keep making supposed statements of fact (below) yet you've not backed these up with any supporting evidence.

However, here's the thing. The olden days are sometimes harked back to - I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen Facebook memes about how wonderful it was back when we were kids, we played out ALL day and wasn't that great apart from the kids who were murdered or run over or drowned or came to a similar grisly end

Care to elaborate?

squills I can't tell you how much time I spent in the boot of a moving car!

Really... a proper boot with the lid down?

Justsaying and Squills your perception is somewhat distorted and probably comes from watching too much call the midwife

I've never seen call the midwife... not sure what you mean?

Elaborate on what squills? I have to say you're taking this VERY personally, I feel that my children are growing up in a world that on the whole is a better world to be a child in than 30 years ago and I'm attacking your generation?

I'm talking about attitudes, not you! If someone criticises the Victorian attitude that women couldn't wear trousers, it's not an attack on all victorians!

One big thing that struck me (I was born in 1984 and my brother in 1990) was that there were fewer things to compare your child to. So now we have month by month milestone charts saying what your child 'should' be doing, whereas my parents thought it was less stressful just waiting for us to do things in our own time, crawl, walk, talk etc.

There have definitely been improvements in child safety. Car seats and smoke free environments being 2 of the best examples. There were aspects of my childhood (I'm 44) which would be unacceptable now however, let's not forget that our parents did the best they could with the information and societal pressure they had at the time.
We have swung too far in the other direction and are raising the most entitled generation of young people ever. How is their unrealistic expectations of indulgence and constant entertainment going to effect them as adults? With a fair amount of disappointment I expect. These children are our next generation of teachers, doctors, solicitors, service providers etc. Our parenting today effects everyone's future.

Agree with squills that star has made some contentious statements, implying that they were general and then when questioned by a pp suggested she was taking it personally.

Oblomov17 I think you nailed it!

But they were general in terms of social acceptability, which is not the same as saying every single parent did them.

So for example a modern example might be 'children spend too much time in front of screens' - I can respond to this and say mine don't, but this doesn't mean I don't accept it's a general issue of our time, just as smacking, neglect ('freedom') and smoking were in the 80s.

squills re: the boot it was a normal car (we had a mini for a bit!) but with the parcel shelf removed so a child sized person could sit up and chat to everyone else through the back of their seats. However if there were lots of people or luggage we would just squeeze in like kidnappees!

Elaborate on what squills? I have to say you're taking this VERY personally, I feel that my children are growing up in a world that on the whole is a better world to be a child in than 30 years ago and I'm attacking your generation? hmm

Yes, I am taking it personally. You are attacking my generation. Yet I'm not supposed to be offended?

You've made some really offensive statements, yet when I ask you for evidence you say you say nothing.

The only children I knew who were bundled together at the back of cars were kids whose parents had estate cars so were well-off.

No-one in my working class environment had an estate car and we certainly didn't travel in the boot! We were all scrunched together on the back seat. I don't remember any special seats, even for babies - they travelled in cots if they were moved at all. They were usually at home though and definitely not at pubs or in high-end restaurants for
dinner!

I envied and pitied the estate car kids - envied because they seemed to have access to ponies, ballet and pianos and pitied because they wore such god-awful clothes - handmedown anoraks and duffels, and trousers flailing at half mast. Working class children were immaculate then (60s).