To wonder if I'm failing my kids by bringing them up to be 'nice'

[Frazzledmum123]

Something I've been wondering about a lot since my son started school really, sorry this is long...

I have 3 children, and the older two (the youngest is a baby still) are, if I do say so myself, wonderful kids. They have their faults of course but they are very well behaved, thoughtful children in general. TBH I used to feel a bit smug because I know and have been told by teachers that they come across well. However, I've increasingly noticed that actually, good guys don't win.

My son who is 6, really struggles socially. He is liked by most kids but if I'm honest I guess he isn't exciting to them as he'd never do something he knew he shouldn't. I've noticed that the kids who all the others fall over themselves to be friends with are actually the ones who can be mean and play up in class. Even those who are nice kids but a bit naughty seem to do better. I consoled myself last year that being good meant he was picked by the teacher to do things so was getting more opportunities but this year he just seems to be fading into the background, all the naughtier ones (I've helped out in class so I know which ones they are) seem to get more attention and even more rewards as an encouragement when they do behave. It didn't seem to bother my son for a while but recently he seems desperate to be part of the 'in crowd' and it broke my heart when recently he burst into tears (he's not really a crier) because they told him to go away when he tried to join in

My middle child, a daughter, is a bit more advanced with her social skills but even at her nursery I've noticed it's the naughty ones who are always in a crowd

So I'm starting to wonder if actually, by bringing them up to behave, I've actually massively failed them in terms of their happiness? They will probably do well enough academically because they listen and try which is what I always thought was important but actually I'm starting to wonder if it is. In the real world, as much as we'd like to think doing well is a nice job etc, I'm wondering if those who are happiest are the ones who are popular and did a bit more, exciting/ naughty things as kids

Really really not meant as a stealth boast about my kids, I'm genuinely feeling really sad at the moment that I may have got things so wrong for them. Even tried telling my son it's ok to do things you aren't always sure you should occasionally but he just would never be able to bring himself to do that

Bluntness- he definitely is behind socially. He did go to nursery for a year before school but really struggled (which is why we sent him as we were concerned how he'd cope at school). This year he has come on loads and has developed his boisterous side which we have encouraged. He is still learning about fitting in with others but is so much better than last year when at the start he kept himself to himself too much. I guess that is why I got so upset the other day, because I know it doesn't come easily to him and he is trying so hard so to see him be slapped back down really hurt.

I'm probably selling him short a bit, he isn't as confident as I'd like for him but he isn't a push over either, if someone told him to do something he shouldn't, he'd stand his ground. He has stuck up for others too against a child I wouldn't want to take on tbh(!) and is very resilient - the fact he rarely cries is that he just sucks it up and gets on with it and not because we are funny about crying. He also has a great imagination. But he won't risk doing anything that might be even slightly against the rules which can leave him on the outside sometimes. He is coming on socially though, I need to work on not being walked over I think.

Thank you haybales- it has really helped me hear the replies because I think my idea of popular is skewed a bit. Thinking about it there is a lovely girl in his class who everyone seems to love. She's well behaved and extremely kind to others. My husband did point out that our ds is always surrounded by others so isn't unpopular, I just don't know when to intervene and when to butt out and let him get on with it! So far we've done the latter and just tried to teach him how to deal with any mean comments etc but it is hard. I'm definitely a borderline helicopter parent, thank god for my dh keeping me in check!

I think as children get older, they realise that the naught children aren't all they are cracked up to be. There's a boy at school with my dd7 and ds9 who is constantly causing trouble. He got football banned at school playtime, nearly caused DD's class to miss a treat, and whacked DS in the head with a tennis racket all last week! When he was younger, this boy was popular and "funny" because he only misbehaved in small ways. Now he is seen as more of a nuisance because playing with him will either get you hurt it in trouble! Don't encourage your DC to be like this!

DS was tagged as a naughty kid... by parents & teachers. Other parents told their children to shun DS so he was very unpopular.

How did you deal with it to help him?

Allpizzas - by 10/11 most children have learnt a lot about friendship and are attracted to different qualities in friends. It's very different with 6 year olds, they are just starting out.

Allpizzas - by 10/11 most children have learnt a lot about friendship and are attracted to different qualities in friends. It's very different with 6 year olds, they are just starting out.

If anything I think small children are often very judgemental and will label another child as naughty and not want to be their friend.

I think being nice and well behaved are good traits but kids who are too serious and don't know how to be silly (even at play times) do tend to be less popular with other kids ime.

@Astro55: if that was Q 4 me... Oh I posted about here & MNers flamed me & said it was my fault -- ok, not true, but close enough. (shrug)

We didn't really find anything we could do to help DS. We avoided activities where he might explode. Late in yr5 DS got in with a geek gang of friends & 95% of his behaviour problems disappeared. I wonder if it helped that the gang was led by a kid whose dad knew me all the way back from Toddler groups (the dad knew I wasn't a bad person; the dad wasn't part of the gossip circles that hated DS & by extension rest of our family). The dad is a kind person so maybe his son is kind, too. That lad & DS are good mates, now.

Well I knew a kid who was very quiet nice natured - but he had some phical didficulties - by year 5 he was being picked on continuously little jibes comments etc and he would just explode - parents avoided him etc know as the naughty kid

I knew he only lost his temper when the others were being unkind - it was a bloody shame!

It was never dealt with 'naughty' boy would be sent home for fighting as he 'started' it! It was a joke and I really wish his mother would have had his corner and fought the system.

I used to worry about ds1 ( your concerns too - too nice/ kind, not enough friends) but it has worked out really well ( he's always out socialising now ) so don't fret.

When my DD was this age she had no friends - small village school and she appeared to be just different. She moved schools at 9 and found it easier in a bigger class. She is now adult, has a large group of very good friends. Children change, social groups change, this will not be forever

OP - let your ds find his own path. Your message to him sounds deeply confused - it's certainly got me confused, reading your posts, let alone him! You have done the right thing teaching him to be polite and well mannered. Now just leave the poor sod alone to work out how to negotiate friendships without muddying the water with your own childhood hangups. And the popular bully you talk about sounds like he can be an obnoxious little git with a fair few social lessons of his own to learn, and your reaction to him massively doormatty... so don't sell your own ds short and assume he needs lessons in confusion from you. If he is actually being bullied or having genuine social difficulty, then deal with that, but what you describe just sounds like utterly normal childhood experiences.

But whatever you do, don't tell him to be more like the bully that everyone flocks around in the hope he'll be nice to them. That sort of popularity is shite.