AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

Yabu. Marrying well, as you are describing it, is a recipe for making a woman financially dependent on a man.

My mum always said 'having money can't make you happy, but having no money can definitely make you unhappy'

I totally and utterly disagree. I taught my daughter if she wants it she earns it herself, she should not make herself financially reliant on another person and she should marry for love.

My grandmother had the same view as you, and my answer then was the same as it is now. If I want it I shall earn it myself. I had and still have no desire for a man to buy me things, to pay for me.. And I do earn it myself, I'm the main bread winner, although my husband is a high earner in his own right.

No one knows how their future will turn out, divorce, illness, whatever. How many women married wealthy men then ended up with nothing when the marriage ended and struggled financially because the idea of a job was alien to them? Too many.

Tell your daughter they are capable and to have enough self respect that they can earn their own salaries.

I think if women go into marriage and having children in the belief that the man will instinctively take on 50% of the care of the children and adapt their mindset accordingly, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment and resentment long term. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but the reality is these men are few and far between.

With this in mind, the absolute minimum you should expect is that he is prepared and able to financially support you during the periods you will not be working - whether this be 6 months or indefinitely. Otherwise, the concept of women "having it all" just means "doing it all", as is so often the case these days.

"Encourage your daughters to take a path that does not lead to poverty or dependence"

The only jobs in that will enable a woman to buy a home in the SE without the help of a high earning partner are medicine, law, IT, accountancy and banking.

1. Not all people are intellectually equipped for jobs in these sectors

1. Other jobs like teaching and nursing are important and fulfilling and we shouldn't put our kids off doing them because they may not result in someone being able to be financially independent.

Surely if our daughters are to marry we should be making sure they do not marry someone who is abusive or a man child?

Yes, there is a wage gap and yes it is harder for women which is exactly why some women do end up giving any hope of a career when they have a partner with a shiny and well paid career they can support with 24 hours child care. This will Never improve if women go looking for marriages with financially better off men. And when the kids gets older and he leaves for his secretary they're fucked

"Sick of the 'tell your daughters to be ambitious for themselves' lobby. I did encourage my dd to work hard at school and to get fulfilling, well paid work. Sadly she dicked around, left school with 2 GCSE's and at 18 is now looking for care assistant work. Eventually she wants to go back into education and at some point train as a nurse. A good job, yes? Important, fulfilling. But unless she marries someone who earns more than twice a nurse's salary she will never be able to afford to buy a home."

Well she isn't going to be able to, then, is she? Feminism gives you many choices, but 'eat your cake and have it' isn't one of them, and nor should it be. And expecting some poor sucker who presumably put in the work that your daughter couldn't be arsed with, to support her is hardly fair, and these days, shouldn't be realistic. Why the hell should he?

The advice I will give to my daughter is the same as to my sons: aim for the highest paid career you will enjoy. Fall in love with some one who is kind and respectful, blah blah.

DD who is 11 and very switched on, but struggles at school because she's dyslexic is convinced marrying someone rich is her way forward in life. DH and I get quite cross with her about it, and point out she needs to be financially independent.

I'm surprised how many young people are happy to start dating someone without knowing their earning potential or how whether they want children. I think I must have had a mental tick list...earning potential, kind, funny, wanted children. But then I think you have to know what you want first. If you know you want to be financially stable get your own career and find a partner who earns a decent wage.

I'd also add that the person you marry must be someone you'll still want to be with if they lose all their money. I know of several marriages that haven't survived bankruptcy etc.

The only jobs in that will enable a woman to buy a home in the SE without the help of a high earning partner are medicine, law, IT, accountancy and banking

Nonsense. I live in the south east. I work for s large corporation and I'm a project manager who worked her way up and earn six figures. I work in non of these discplines you mention.

And yes can you imagine a thread that said "encourage your sons to marry a wealthy woman so that if he decides he doesn't want to work in the future she can pay for him and make his life easier"

Horrifying.

FYI, I will also be encouraging both my sons to seek out a life partner who can offer them a good life - emotionally and in material terms.

Blunt

The majority of people could not hold down a job which pays 6 figures, and there are not enough high paying jobs for them to do.

Saying that the answer to female dependency is for all women to get jobs which pay the top 10% of salaries is illogical.

The answer to female dependency is to raise the disgracefully low pay of traditionally female jobs - nursing, teaching, care work, create more affordable housing, heavily subsidise childcare, and make non-payment of child support a criminal offence. Not 'encourage all women to aim for 6 figure salary jobs'.

I want my dd to grow to be an independent woman someone who has her own goals and own career of her choosing and should she marry to marry for love. Someone who is kind and will treat her with love and respect she deserves not how much is in their wallet. This isn't pride and prejudice, Mr Darcy isn't just going to magically come out who is amazing and rich and has all the qualities women are looking for. Surely in this century we should be encouraging to raise strong independent women who aren't reliant on marrying well.

YABU, I will teach my daughter (and my son) that, if they want to marry (and they don't have to) to do it with someone who cares for them and treats them well. I will teach the importance of doing well in school and getting a well paid job herself

However I'll also tell them both to marry someone who is financially responsible. Not a 'rich' person, but someone who can manage money whatever their budget and doesn't drive them into debt. After watching my sister be in a marriage where her husband (otherwise a truly lovely man who worshipped the ground she walked on) racked up six-figure debts and bankrupted them, it's all very well having a nice partner who makes you laugh but being financially irresponsible can destroy a marriage and a person.

TheStoic said it all at 22:22 yesterday.
I agree 100% Underthemoonlight.

OP. What I really don't get is your insistence that your 'marrying well' advice is consistent with you being 'strongly feminist'.

How can advising that your daughters enter marriages with the expectation that they take on such traditional gender specific roles (I.e. husband has the career and earns the money, wife primarily looks after home) be feminist in any real sense.

Your supposed feminism seems a bit like those people who say 'I'm not racist but....' who clearly are racist but can't bring themselves to associate with being racist for the stigma that would bring, only in your case the 'not racist' is replaced with 'feminist'.

My mum always said 'having money can't make you happy, but having no money can definitely make you unhappy'

I don't disagree with this, but the logical conclusion that I draw from this is not that dd should marry a rich person, but rather that she should ensure that she has enough earning potential to meet the requirements of her desired lifestyle. This approach seems to me to be far more reliable!

elkegel you asked what I thought a 'golden career' was. I was just referring to the many, many posters who seemed convinced that their daughters were going were going to achieve success, likely in well paid careers. But as others have pointed out, not everyone (aside from Xenia's DDs!) is bound for a career in law, medicine, IT or 6-fig salary roles etc. And sometimes one does their best as a parent and it still doesn't work out - my dad raised his stepsons as best he could and both are unemployed with stints in jail.

For all those who want their daughters to be successful and independent, do you know how hard it is to have an amazing life on one income? It's tough and I say that as a high paid 'successful' woman living solo. I know very few women who are on single incomes and living the high life and most that I know struggle.

It seems most women are happy for their DDs to enjoy the benefits of marriage, just don't want them to be mercenary enough to look for a well to do DH. In fact in my original post I almost put 'to marry' not 'to marry well' as marriage itself confers so many financial benefits (usually).

And yes can you imagine a thread that said "encourage your sons to marry a wealthy woman so that if he decides he doesn't want to work in the future she can pay for him and make his life easier"

Good point... such a thread would be deleted within the hour for being goady! I wonder what the OP would make of it!

It's not so much marrying someone rich as marrying someone who will pull their weight in a relationship that is important.

The main advice I'll give my kids (from bitter experience) is not to have kids too young. ExH and I got together and had babies very young and it only became clear to me what a lazy selfish arsehole he was when it was too late.

Maybe ask this question to the millions of women currently dashing off to the childminders. How many of them would rather be at home?

I don't think you would encourage them to 'marry well' a such, no one likes a gold digger! But as well as encouraging them to be successful themselves I think I will encourage my kids to regard success in a partner quite highly. DD and DS.

Money doesn't buy happiness, but it it certainly makes life easier. There's this girl at work with similar job to me (good wage but part time, small kids) sounds like her husband has kind of failed in his chosen profession so now has gone back to retrain to be a teacher for 4 years! So she's having to support him for these 4 years while living walking distance to uni because he can't drive.. put it this way, I wouldn't want my daughter being married to someone like that! He might be a lovely bloke, kind etc. but I think each partner should be able to support the family to some extent.

Only read the OP.

YABU!!!!!!!

I didn't marry well. I did well. I make good money and love my career, yes I work FT but it's worked out very well for our family. I married my (dirt poor) dh 20 years ago because I loved him. He's been a SAHD for much of that time and then set up a business. We encourage each other and support each other.

The day I tell my daughter to marry well is the day I shoot myself in the head.

"she should ensure that she has enough earning potential to meet the requirements of her desired lifestyle. This approach seems to me to be far more reliable!"

How is that reliable?? Do you think all the people on low incomes chose to be?? It's not possible to ensure you have the amount of money you want. We can't all be doctors and engineers. Some people can't be teachers or nurses either and have to struggle in retail or service jobs. Hard work comes into it, but so does innate ability and the educational opportunities you had.

If I ever tell my DD to "marry well" from a financial position I will have failed as her mother. If all she can aspire to is to marry someone with good earning capabilities, I've gone badly wrong.