AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

To the posters that say "I'd rather be married to someone kind who loved and supported me than be rich and miserable"- Ex dh was an abisive bastard and we also had no money (the latter did not bother me). I'm now married to someone kind, supportive and loving who is fortunate enough to earn at a level which makes it pointless for me to work for financial reason alone. My point is that it doesn't have to be one or the other, though I accept that marriage is a gamble in every way as I believe you never truly know anyone 100% but yourself.

You only have to read any of the multiple threads on here each week where SAHMs are asking if they should have some access to their families money to know that relying on someone else for your financial stability may not be the wisest long term choice for a woman.

I'm interested in how practically one goes about 'marrying well' in the financial sense (aside from hanging out in bars as a wag wannabe - which must surely be a niche activity and doomed to fail for most). Presumably this is not a real life choice for most people - you meet who you meet and go from there?

Character, resilience and work ethic are surely more important than cash in the bank. I would hope that my children would marry people who have these and are well educated with good career prospects - similar to them. I don't necessarily mean it has to be a city career either. Its attitude and ethics which are important. That they are kind and caring with common values goes without saying.

Whilst I sort of see what the OP is saying, had this been suggested to me by my parents I would have seen it as a value judgement on my abilities and independence. They would never have said it although I rather suspect my mother thinks I should consider staying at home as there is more to work than life!

As for comparing SAHM to a prostitute or lazy - words fail me. There is more value to life than earning a salary and I can certainly see that for many the ideal family set up involves a parent at home caring for their children and the house. As for who is 'paying your way' - well I see the family as a unit / a team not a pair of individuals who must each earn a wage

I say this as a full time working mother - if that is relevant.

Anyway that wasn't really the subject matter of the OP.

Or thinking about it, that is not right either. It's what would have been suitable for me. However, I certainly know some men who hoped for a traditional family set up as their ideal - in which case you need to consider whether that is compatible with marrying a career woman (or man). It's more about thinking about whether the person is compatible with you or revising your ideas... if my daughter hoped to have a high flying career and a man who would support her at home that would be marrying well too in my view provided he had the character and work ethic for it.

I will be telling my dds that they should always ensure they are able to earn a decent wage regardless of who they married. Since my dcs were born I have continued to work part time in a professional role keeping up my CPD and work contacts. Shit happens in life: redundancy, divorce, illness being financially independent makes me feel I can handle whatever life throws at me

If marrying well means marrying someone intelligent and hard-working, with the means and inclination to get on in life and who is also respectful, considerate and kind, you would not be unreasonable to hope your daughters marry such a person (if they wish to marry at all). Of course, you must respect their decision if their choice of partner is not one you would have made for them.

I would want similar for my sons, too.

Absolutely not.

Having seen so often situations where women become SAHPs only to find themselves financially dependent and trapped in at best a loveless marriage and, at worst, an abusive one I would never encourage such thinking.

I outearn my DH by five times salary and can't imagine giving my DC the advice to marry well (meaning marry money).

I will absolutely give them the advice to marry well as in marry a loving, kind, loyal person who respects and treats you as an absolute equal in all things.

famous, you are asking how to do it? At lot of people meet their life partner at their university (see Duchess of Cambridge). That way if Oxbridge girls are going out with oxbridge boys also of the same class and both with family money then you tend to find they settle down together. These days people tend to do assortive mating rather than rich boss marrying secretary from a poor background who looks good but earns very little.

Never let yourself play second fiddle to a man. If babies come make sure he is the one as much as you rushing home to collect children from nursery.

I would like my children, male and female, to marry someone like us with a similar work ethic, ideally similar class, background, capital in the family, earnings so a good fit and similar 120+ IQ etc. It tends to work best. however I do not need any of the children to live off a spouse's earnings. I always worked and I hope the children do.

I eanred a lot more than my husband but we both had similar families, he owned a house, both been to universities, in professions etc.

I wouldn't say Marry well but I would say be someone financially stable and able to pay their way, many couples even financially stable ones argue about money so reducing that helps. Someone financially unreliable is difficult to build a life with.

ALL that being said, I would tell my Daugher to make sure she offers the same to a partner, you don't need to have an amazing career to do that if you don't want to, but you need to aim to earn enough to support yourself and you share of what any children you choose to have need.

Bottlesoflove you have it spot on. Good on you

Some of this thread is the most depressing I have ever read on here. How despressing to think that the most a girl or woman can expect from life is to have a husband to keep her. I think I have time travelled back a century or so. My own mother (approaching 70) would be horrified with such an idea.

One piece of advice I have given my kids is to avoid lame ducks. A relative of mine had a succession of boyfriends that she wanted to save or improve or mother or something. It never ended well. You have to see the other person as your equal and resist the urge to feel needed as eventually you just feel used.

" I know a lot of professional men and I don't know any who married someone with no career prospects/intellectually challenged but quite pretty!"

I am ugly and not a professional, yet every man who's asked me out in my life as far as I remember has been in a professional or managerial type job because these are the men I meet. There was one person whose job is more manual, but he owns his own business and is much better off than me. In fact, because men generally earn more I've had very little contact with men who earn less than me in my life.

Some of this thread is the most depressing I have ever read on here. How despressing to think that the most a girl or woman can expect from life is to have a husband to keep her. I think I have time travelled back a century or so. My own mother (approaching 70) would be horrified with such an idea.

Both my grandmothers who are in their 70s would also be horrified by this kind of attitude. I very much hope that even if some think like this they don't tell their daughters such things. I know I'd find it hugely dispiriting and limiting if my mother did, and told me.

"These days people tend to do assortive mating rather than rich boss marrying secretary from a poor background who looks good but earns very little."

I think both are happening and there are probably fewer secretaries since the time of the computer. Most secretaries I know are with managers or professional men. Who do the secretaries you know marry? There are still very few men doing that kind of work.

But Gwen, why are you not a professional? Were there genuine barriers that stopped you, or was it just personal choice or you were put off by your mothers/societies expectations of you? If a man has chosen to pursue a professional career, why shouldn't he earn more than you? Are you genuinely saying men less capable/intelligent managed to blag professional careers by virtue of the fact they are men? I thought most professional careers required degrees? I am not sure how old you are, but are you seriously saying universities were refusing entry to females in your day?
However if women are encouraged to aim for nothing more in life than to be a housewife and mother, of course there will continue to be a gender pay gap. We have to encourage exactly the opposite in our daughters or there will never be gender pay equality. A professional career and having a family are not mutually exclusive either. Plenty of men do both.

Bottles, I have two degrees and a postgraduate diploma. It shows your prejudice that you think people who are not professionals don't have degrees. There are many more graduates than there are professional jobs. Go into your nearest call centre and you'll find about half of them are graduates.

The barriers are that I'm no good at anything that pays any money, can't do maths or any other stem subject, am only average at arts subjects and am not practically talented enough for a trade like being a plumber so I can't earn much money.

FFS Bottles SOMEONE has to do the lower paid jobs. SOMEONE has to work the tills at Asda or care for your elderly rellies in the nursing home.

I bet a penny to a pinch of shit though that if care workers wages went up tommorrow so they were paid what they are worth (remember most of them are women) and the care home fees went up to pay for it there would be a very long thread on here full of objections from the high flyers having to pay a bit more.

Middle class feminism reeks It is not my feminism.

" if women are encouraged to aim for nothing more in life than to be a housewife and mother"

I don't think the OP is advocating that. What she's saying is that if her daughter wanted to be a SAHM she'd better be informed that she would need a partner with a good income to be able to do that. I don't think OP is saying to her daughter to not have a career if that's what she wants.

This thread is possibly the most depressing thread I have so far read after three-odd years of being on mumsnet. This thread is why we need feminism.

I don't have a DD but if I did I would want to tell her that money and all that goes with it possessions, designer this-and-that, a big house, new car etc etc are NOT going to make her happy. I be.ieve that the happiest people live a fairly simple lifestyle and are not constantly striving for better/bigger/better. So we all need to earn enough to live on - however the household earnings are split in a partnership - but that means earning enough to comfortably have the basics without worrying . I would want her do look for a meaningful career where she could get job satisfaction and a partner where there is mutual love and respect.

I don't understand this thread at all. It seems to me that the people who find my posts most inflammatory hold two contradictory positions:

• marriage is about love. You should be prepared to work hard for the family and love the man you marry, and like them, and be trusting. Holding anything other than utterly unsubstantiated optimistic attitudes to men as a class is "hating" them and not what marriage is about. It is never too much work to be married (if you are a woman).

• On the other hand, you should never expect him to do anything for you. When it comes to your own needs or comfort, and those of your children, marriage is suddenly something that should be entered into while remaining entirely self sufficient. do not expect a man's work to support you or your children in any way, because that is being a "gold digger" and expecting a "meal ticket". Being married means never having to do any work (if you are a man).

Whereas I hold the opinion that:

• marriage is about love. and both people supporting each other.

• it is hard to be truly self-sufficient. We all rely on each other in many ways; but nowadays, in particular, with rising housing and other costs set against stagnant salaries, it is a really tough equation for many single people to work and afford childcare. It would be good to be in a supportive couple for this, (and others) reason.

• things might go wrong. it's best to consider worst case scenarios, however unlikely or undesirable.

I work part time, my DH doesn't have a particularly high earning job but our outgoings are low.

No wonder MLM companies find it so easy to recruit. Working class women being made to feel like crap for being in a low wage job/not in a career. are easy money for these companies who feed on low self esteem. Women sign up (to a pyramid scheme) after being told its a chance to own their own business and start selling crap like Juice Plus/Forever Living . Then start selling this stuff to each other via fb . So you have working class women selling this stuff to each other buying into a form of oppression (Juice Plus is a "diet" product) so they can feel a bit better about themselves because society and middle class white feminism has told them they are worthless if they dont have a certain type of career.

HelenaDove, that is so sad and probably spot on.
I wouldn't just blame feminism though.... but yeah that's pretty much it

AntiGrinch I dont blame feminism just a certain type of it.

I watched a friend become an MLMer last year. She was selling Younique It was a bloody car crash.