Future DIL WWYD

[Notwavingimdrowning]

Huge backstory that I've posted about before under a different username, so I will keep it quite brief ! My future DIL hates my family for some reason that we don't know about, despite practically begging for her to explain what we did / do that makes her hate us so much and therefore be able to sort it out. I know that MIL get a really bad time on MN, but can honestly say that we have been nothing but kind and welcoming to her from the beginning, if anything I admit probably over compensating for the rude way she behaves. She is coldly polite in front of my DS, but will completely blank us if we bump into her when she is on her own. ( in a relationship with DS for 10 years and she has always been this way). I have spent so much time analysing every conversation that we have had to figure out if I have offended her in some way but she hates us all as a family and refers to us as losers, overheard by a very close friend that she didn't realise knew who she was. We are just a normal family, live in a lovely but modest house and have never been in trouble so I don't understand why she considers us to be losers.
Anyway, we work in the same field but not in the same place, but recently I had to visit the department where she works, several times in the same day. I was with a very senior member of staff who knows both of us and knows she is engaged to my DS but is not aware of how she behaves towards me. On 3 separate occasions she saw me and though I said hello, made a point of turning her back to me in order to not have to acknowledge me. At one point I was actually close enough to reach out and touch her ( I didn't !) before she marched off to a different area away from me. By this point it was completely obvious to the manager that there was an issue and when we left he discreetly asked me about it and to my utter shame I started to cry and told him everything. I felt totally humiliated and embarrassed, but he was lovely and advised me to speak to my DS. I did and he must have asked her about it as I've now received a text from her to say that she's sorry, she didn't see me, I was mistaken as she was so busy, she would never deliberately ignore me, blah blah blah, but it just isn't true and definitely not how it happened. I decided today that enough is enough and I will no longer spend any more time worrying about her and trying to make her like us. I know that you cannot force someone to be respectful and I finally decided to leave them to get on with their lives and stop trying to be part of it, as much as it breaks my heart to essentially cut off my DS, as I also realised that I actually blame my DS for allowing this to go on for 10 years.
WWYD ? So far I haven't replied to the text. Would you ignore ? Reply with the truth, so essentially call her a liar ? I'm not going to say I was mistaken because I wasn't ! I know she saw me, she knows she saw me. Please wise people of MN tell me what to do.

My step brother married a woman who sounds a lot like your future DIL. Tbh, I think she has some mental issues. She also lives in a bit of a fantasy world, is a heavy facebook user and presents a false reality of her life on fb than what it really is. Her dad passed away and he is a saint, everyone else is the devil.

This may not be your style, but I really think you should call her out on her behavior. I think you should ask her, but maybe do so in a polite way and be extremely nice about it. Almost make her feel bad... cry if you can, even fake tears will do (I know that's terrible sounding, but it will make her think about what she's doing). I also agree with you... your son has allowed this to go on. Are you close with your son?

It's really messed up of her to call your family "losers." Your son and her have been together for quite a while. She sounds like a snot.

I know two women who married male friends of mine who did the same thing to their PILs, whom I also knew having been friends with the two guys since childhood.

What they both had in common is that they were two of the most insecure women I've ever met.

The first focused more on the sister, whom I also knew, rather than the parents, but she couldn't cope with the parents either. She insisted that the sister was persona non grata. They never saw her and her partner was never to see his sister. I think she just couldn't cope with the fact that her partner had another female close to him. Her way of dealing with it was to cut her out. Sister was lovely, very chilled, unthreatening, very nice person, no side to her etc. She couldn't cope with me either, although I was just a friend, we had no sexual history. It's sad, he lives in Paris doesn't see me or his sister or his parents. I don't really understand his unswerving loyalty.

The second hated the family before she'd even met them. She announced to my friend that she could tell she hated them from photos. I thought she was bananas and said so, but I didn't make a deal of it as I didn't think it would last. They got married though. FFW my friends father died and he went to the funeral, literally hundreds of people there. Many people came up to him to tell him how much they'd loved his dad. His wife had always told him they had no friends and were really weird etc. He said the scales fell from his eyes and he realised that everything she said was bollocks. He was very laid back, he worked abroad a lot, they had four kids. I think he didn't really engaged or judges her POV. But the funeral was a turning point. He got divorced and remarried a really lovely woman.

OP, can I ask you - when you asked your DIL or son what the problem is, what exactly did they say ?

" There's no problem, I don't know what you mean "

" There is a problem but we won't tell you what it is"

Or something else ?

Nancy, same with my stepbrother's wife. She is incredibly insecure deep down. It's sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for her actually. She talks about me behind my back and has basically alienated my stepbrother from the entire family. Their children don't even know their cousins or aunts and uncles or even their grandparents.

I don't think there's anything to gain by sending a text that disputes her version of events.

I think the only thing that might help is speaking to her directly. Think of something you know she enjoys that you could do together. Say, "Future DIL, I am looking forward to the wedding next year. I know that you and my son are really happy together. I want to set aside some time to get to know each other better. Would you like to go to X with me?" Obviously it might not work but I think that is the right approach. Asking her to explain why she doesn't like you isn't going to work. Even if you have offended her in the past, unwittingly, this approach might allow a way forward.

Don't assume your son knows the score -- I am often surprised how in-law issues fly over the head of sons/husbands that I know.

I would be very happy if in the future my dds wanted to pop in on their way home from work, and to live nearby . I don't understand the problem with that? I live in a village where this is normal for most families.
I've had problems with my own MIL, she's not great at female friendship and so she isn't always kind to me- arriving after a long journey when I was hugely pregant her response was "Oh darling, you must be so tired, sit down, have something to eat....." ..to DH. But I do love her somehow! She loves DH, and so do I. She isn't a very hands on Grandma, she could do more for our dds than she does, but they love her, and I want them to have lovely times with her . My own parents are dead, so she is very important to my dds. I really cannot imagine anyone using what used to be called "the cut" with one's mother in law! This is a grotty situation, your DIL sounds rude, spoilt, selfish and unkind . The engagement party thing is horrible.
I think you do need to sit down and force your son to tell you the truth and not fob you off. What does he imagine happening if they have a baby? Will he feel happy with her parents getting to spend lots of time with that baby while his family are shut out? He must know why she is like this, unless he is closing his eyes to the fact that she is so self-centred and spoilt? He needs to know that you cried at work, in front of a senior person, when that person noticed her behaviour. He needs to see how much this hurts you and to do something to help resolve it. Frankly he needs to see that if she makes no effort whatsoever to be friendly and polite towards his Mum, who he loves very much, then she doesn't really care about him at all.

sorry for your situation with your future dil.
is she making your ds happy? are they happy together.
maybe you should speak about that with your ds if he is happy and you can mention her keeping herself away from you, but not blaming her, because we don't know why she does that for a very long time. maybe your ds has a clue.
if they are happy together (I mean in an equal way) then maybe you ignore her, just don't get upset about her behaviour and don't try and make an effort anymore about trying to build a closer relationship. you have been upset for a very long time and you done your best.
maybe things will change itself in the future, leave it to time.

and just send a text to her text saying 'thank you for your text, I really appreciate it'. that's it.

Olive I have been told many different things over the years. Ranging from she's shy in the early days of their relationship, to there isn't a problem ( so it must be in my head ?) I have asked her directly once, I said if I've done something to offend you or upset you then I am sorry. It's obvious that something bothers you and if you tell me what it is then maybe we can sort things out, she just said that I hadn't done anything wrong. If she could be honest enough to say you do / did xyz then I would be able to try to make amends, or if she said I just don't like you, then fine I could accept that too.

Having experienced two examples myself, it's probably true that you haven't done anything wrong. She just can't cope with you. Nothing you do or say can change that. Asking her about it will just cause her pain, which she will blame you for, and she will resent you more.

I thought the detail about the restaurant with her parents was very telling. That's where she gets her insecurity. They can't cope with you or social situations either. And they don't know how to behave.

If your son is anything like my old friends, he's probably really in love, quite laid back, just wants a quiet life, so he lets what she says about you wash over him. He just accepts she doesn't like you and thinks there's nothing he can do about it.

(I was referring back to my post at 22.54). He doesn't recognise this issue as the big red flag it actually is.

You need to tell your son that it is just not good enough behaviour. That you've taken it for so long and now it stops. Is he really happy to marry a woman - an adult - who cannot even be civil to his own parents, who excluded them from his engagement party, and who will leave them to feel like miserable outcasts at his wedding? Point out that the text she deigned to send about the work situation was not good enough and that her behavior was so shabby that the director noticed it without any prompting from you.

Is he honestly OK with marrying someone who so plainly despises his family. How is he planning for things to work once children are involved? Is it going to be all one party for her side and "oh well, we meant to have oneforyour side but one party's enough for a child that age"?

Put your foot down. Demand an explanation as to why he thinks this is good enough.

And if he won't listen, then write or email it. Try talk first though.

Good luck.

So she has told you directly that she's shy and there's nothing wrong.

And you won't accept this because you feel she is not being honest , is that right ?

And you would prefer that she said that she didn't like you , as then you could accept it ? But surely she has shown you by her behaviour that she doesn't want to spent time with you and still you are refusing to accept this .

Shyness doesn't explain her behaviour, neither does dislike.

Nor does either account for the weird manipulation over the engagement party.

My sister can't stand her PILs, yet they were still invited to engagement party, wedding, christenings, Christmas, they even go on holiday for a week a year. She does it because they're her husband's family.

It's not always Mums, but Sisters have the potential for causing mayhem, creating a situation and milking every ounce of sympathy she could out of it.

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

-If you heard that your former SIL and MIL had MILs of their own that were mystified as to why their DILs were being so horrible, for no reason would you...

A- Think, well no surprise there, they are both very difficult women and it is pretty much the same thing they did to me.

B- Reach for your torch and shine it at their MILs

Difficult people prone to doing hostile stuff for reasons of their own invention tend to be that way because of who they are. Not because of the specific relationship role they happen to be in at any given time. The awful MILs that many posters have were potentially awful DILs back in the day. And possibly also awful colleagues. Or terrible "so called" mates.

All hard going people who like creating drama and bad feeling out of thin air have to start somewhere. It is more likely that they took their first steps in being a right git as a DIL than MIL, simply because DIL-hood usually comes first. By the time they graduate to MIL-hood, they may have had several decades of practice under their belt. So might be better at it and with the habit of creating strife being more engrained.

Shining a light on SILs and MILs doing crappy things does not contradict the OP's post pointing to hostile behaviour for no apparent reason. The highlighting of crappy MILs and SILs merely confirms that there is a good reason to find the OP's version of events believable, cos some people do do this kind of shit.

It is entirely possible that the DIL in question is potentially an awful MIL-in-Waiting. Cutting her teeth on the OP, so she is good and ready for any unfortunate daughter-in-law, or son-in-law she might have in the future.

I've found your posts really interesting 0nline.

What a very rude and inconsiderate woman she is!!

Tbh...I would not give her any more mental space. Focus on your DS, and leave her to sweat with regards to the text, play it dead cool with her. Saying that, she probably has the hide of a rhino, so it could well be lost on her.

Very disappointing that your DS has let this go on for so long.

Sefinitely speak to your ds. This to me has all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. Over 10 years she has had plenty of time to chip away at his self esteem and self worth.

She sounds controlling to say the least. Currently it is your family that she is annexing but trust me, over time it will be every friend, every possible source of support your ds has.

I have seen these people work. Their aim is to isolate so that they have complete control. She sounds the car horn and he is expected to come scuttling back. Then she will be asking him every word that was said.

If you think that surely men could not be victims of this abuse I can assure you they can and are. Please speak to your ds. Say you are concerned for him. Assure him your door is always open. Never give up on your relationship with him.

Op a few pages ago you said you were going to say something along the lines of what another poster had suggested, which included referring to the manager noticing. Just wondering if you'd done this yet. Personally I would in reply to her text.

Does your son know about the comment about your family being "losers"?

If my husband had said that about my family it would have got my hackles up, and it would have affected my relationship with him.

0nline That is very true. The crappy people in my family are definitely just crappy people, and are fairly universally crappy not just to ILs. Just some people have a higher tolerance for bullshit that others. As I've aged my tolerance levels have dropped.

Really horrid, op. I agree with those people saying you need to have a frank heart to heart with your son. Her being abusive to him or some unintended comment of his years ago comes to mind. Its lovely he pops in a fair bit, but not really good enough as it doesn't sound like you get 'quality time' - just five minutes here and there. He's being lazy and selfish about his relationship with you- doesn't want to rock the boat with her so is allowing this to go on. What do your other half/other children think? It sounds like you've got yourself tied in knots about this over the years and need to step away a bit- start from the position that YOU are ok- the problem is not you, and approach from there- you keep mentioning that you don't know what you've done- maybe nothing- hold onto that. Her behaviour at work was totally out of order and she needs to be told that it was the manager who noticed and said something -that makes it clear you don't buy her excuses even if you don't say so.
Your son can't make HER change but can change his own behaviour (standing up for you when she says things at home, making it clear that rudeness isn't acceptable, making sure you are all looked after at events (eg engagement/dinner/wedding) by him and she doesn't get to not include you all. He is the bridge between you and her, he needs to grow up and deal with it better, by standing up for his family. If he shows her he values you then she has to at least 'do the right thing'. My MIL and I are very different, We find eachother hard work as we're very different and my DH has had to learn that it is not acceptable to not be involved in the relationship (vv with him and my mother, i mightadd- i've learned to smooth things as we go along) - I want their relationships to be good, better than before me even - and although i don't always 'feel it' I try and make sure I always 'do the right thing' - birthdays, christmases, events, visits, trips, her staying with us etc etc. Your DIL should at least be civil in short bursts to 'do her duty' because it IS her duty to support her soon to be husband in his family relationships regardless of her own feelings. Just as she has presumably supported him integrating in hers, and he supports her in her family.
It is hard for motherswhen sons marry- my mum really struggled with my brothers choices of wives, but both of those women were nice and lovely and open and understood how she felt and cared about what shethought for my brothers sake, and so a few years in they have good (I think) mil/dil relationships. Your dil is being selfish and childish and very unkind and your son is being weak and unkind by not addressing it. It doesn't matter what perceived slight there has been - the systematic bullying you are experiencing is not acceptable for any reason. Good luck.

I'm not sure why you need her to tell you in words that she doesn't like you - she's told you in actions. As you have suggested, you need to just get on with that. Stop trying to mend things, just see your son, fit in with the wedding plans (even though, yes, it is hurtful), just be the bigger person. Still send her birthday presents etc. Don't reply to the text. No improvement to the current situation can take place by discussing any of this with her or ds, and it risks making it worse.

Shyness doesn't explain her behaviour, neither does dislike.

It does, it really could be that simple!

She is your sons future, you see him a lot, even tho she doesn't seem to like you.

Calling people out, and demanding explanations, or that they consider what will happen IF they have a child is the behaviour of the awful MILs we hear about on here all the time. I know you want a different relationship with them both, but you really cannot demand or insist things go as you want them.

They may not have children, they may move to the other end of the country, or abroad (and creating tension by confronting them might push them to move further away). Your current relationship with your DS sounds good, and closer than many - please don't try to make him back you up against his fiance - he probably won't, and you could well spoil what you currently have.

But, ohidoliketobe etc etc (too long a name!), the situation is at rock bottom as it is. I really think the OP has nothing to lose by saying this situation can't go on.

I have over the years seen many situations like this - both men and women. And, I agree with online, that an unpleasant person will be that unpleasant mil, dil, sil, colleague and so on. Dh had a friend who got together with someone and then shortly afterwards all the friends received an email - from the girlfriend informing them that Mark would no longer be seeing them. Mark went along with it! A few years later Mark emerged a bit dazed and confused from the relationship and couldn't believe what an idiot he'd been. So, for every "alienator", I think there needs to be an easily-manipulated person who is happy to sail their friends and family down the river for a quiet life.